2773

Nor is going truly alone. Let me ask you, point blank, do you oppose groups like those AOC is supported by, working with challengers to unseat bad reps? Or do you expect those would be challengers to go alone, with no outside group help?

I’m not expecting the establishment to help. But I also think you truly do not grasp the mechanics that keep people like Lipinski in power. Chicago Machine politics were a hell of a thing. One fo the few true places where the party had absolute power. There really is no other analogues in the country, it is a special case. And they absolutely had the power to prevent challengers from getting on the ballot.

Getting him ousted would not be possible if there wasn’t an outside support network to assist the effort.

2774

One of them is, well, Justice Democrats. Aren’t you arguing they shouldn’t help challenge Dems in safe seats?

2775

I am not opposed to the known methods AOC used to earn her spot to represent. When I made the remark about handouts, I mainly meant that challengers to incumbents within the same party should neither expect not ask for support right out the door… When and if the challengers campaign expands, the incumbent will have to respond and if the majority really wants them out, then of course there’s a chance if they can get off the ground.

However we want to label it, establishment, current rep and supporters. They can’t stop someone from stepping up, but yeah that will be hard.

2776

It is up to the challenger to prove they’re worth it, and if they can’t handle other Democrats being resistant to their arrival and just relying on voters and resources they brought with them then maybe they’re not ready.

2777

Actually, the Squad and the House Freedom Caucus represent mirror images. Outside of the House, the members of the Freedom Caucus were marginal, representing policy views that were not especially popular except in their own districts. Inside the House, they had sufficient numbers to wreck the best-laid plans of Republican leadership. The Squad members, by contrast, have a large and avid following in progressive circles nationwide. Whereas inside the House, “they’re four people and that’s how many votes they got,” as Pelosi put it.

The Squad understands this dynamic. In a recent New Yorker interview, David Remnick asked Ocasio-Cortez about her relationship with the speaker. She replied:

I think sometimes people think that we have this, like, we have a relationship.

Are you saying you don’t?

Not particularly, not one that’s, I think, distinguished from anyone else.

In other words, Ocasio-Cortez recognizes herself as one of 235 House Democrats. And in her unofficial role as spokeswoman for the Squad, she has tended to interpret Pelosi’s remarks as political strategy rather than political animus.

“I think leadership, their primary goal right now is making sure that everyone who won a swing seat comes back,” Ocasio-Cortez told Remnick. “So I think that that’s where a lot of their time—rightfully, I think, justifiably—is invested, in those relationships.”

2778

Ah, OK, so you’ve got no objection to e.g. Justice Democrats recruiting more-left Dems to challenge sitting Democrats in safe seats with bad records. Got it.

2779

When exactly did I say did?

Unlike you, I don’t claim some some strange influence has some how prevented challenges, withheld campaign money and didn’t give opportunities.

I expect people who run to expect challenges, and overcome them, figure out how to fundraise or do without, and make opportunities.

2780

Well, right here:

So, you can understand my confusion, I hope.

2781

The source of your confusion is I am separating the Democratic Party as a whole from the people who actually vote for their rep. If the people whom the representative actually represents are generally content with someone who votes 66% of the time with the Democrats… the party should leave them alone and let them continue. If they are not happy, they being the people who actually vote for their representation and not someone who represents a different group, then of course they can bring someone up from their community and run them.

The challenger, the ouster, should come from the people voting and fill a need for them, not just someone already in Congress pushing it, who just wants someone they can rely on to vote with them 100% of the time.

At no point did I ever say, what you said.

2782

Yes, that’s very clear, thanks.

2783

So you didn’t read anything else I said did you. And yeah, I am not using the term Justice Democrats because this is not a position unique to any specific group. You keep bringing them up though.

2784

Yes, that’s very clear now. I was confused because the party is, well, everyone in the party. The politicians, and the voters, and the groups of voters, and the contributors, and so on. So when you say we should not be ousting anyone I admit that I took we to mean Democrats. All of us. Sorry about that.

2785

Yes, I can see the confusion. After all, we’re talking about, primarily, Democrats challenging Democrats… the same party, both sides. I consider this a healthy scenario in most cases. It should happen sometimes.

2786

Digging up this thread for this doozy.

2787

They can’t say Boston?

2788
2789

Can I still call Bostonians assholes? Cause every Bostonian I know is.

2790

How about calling them tapirs*?

*I use the word in it’s classic QT3 fashion, not a literal reference to the animal. Which animal is totally awesome.

2791

I think there should be a law that if you pass a law so blatantly unConstitutional you’re immediately removed from office.

2792

Here’s the lawmaker who introduced the petition, which was given 3 minutes of floor time in a joint session of the MA Joint Committee on the Judiciary, along with 70 other petitions:

And here’s Chip Jones, conservative political consultant, commenting on the bill:

If we’re going to ban the word bitch, why are we only protecting 51% of the population from having their feelings hurt. Why are my feelings less important than a woman’s? And the answer is, men have become second class citizens. Toxic masculinity. People don’t like men much anymore.