2914

I called myself a fiscal conservative who was socially liberal for years. For the most part I still do. I think many people think American society could be improved by “paying” to solve the problems, but in the 60+/- years of the Great Society I don’t see how much has improved.

I will admit to becoming a full on leftist when it comes to health care though. There is no reason the richest country in the world can’t insure that it’s people can get medical care when they need it. But I think there is so much money being thrown at problems without anything ever changing that we need new ways to look at things. Simply spending won’t solve things.

But, unlike the GOP I do admit there are problems, and that ignoring them or thinking the status quo will somehow solve the problems isn’t going to work.

2915

I never delved into the figures or the politics but my instinct accords with you in this case.

I gre up in Kenya, where there was no social health service. Still isn’t really.

I mean, there were odd programs, I did get some injections for stuff, but my step mum, for example, had a burst appendix and my dad had to pay up on the spot.

He complained bitterly, and I remember the incident because it was the first time I heard the term “hippocratic oath.”

2916

I’m not, but if I were would it matter?

The island I live on is very very pro gay and I am also pretty pro gay.

Gay pride here is an awesome party.

Here I’m pretty liberal. I don’t muhh care what a person’s sexuality is, and I am very used to same sex couples holding hands etc in public.

Hell I’m writing this 10 metres from a beach where people of all shapes and sizes habitually sunbathe almost nude.

I honestly don’t get the obsession it seems the USA has with controlling /policing people’s sexuality, but I recognise fully that my perspective comes from years of exposure to this, and I wasn’t always like this.

I went to a nudist beach for the first time in 2018, and I was nervous.

Afterwards I wondered what the fuss was about.

Also, I spent time in Germany and their spas are obligatory nude.

And they have the frei body kultur.

So, in that respect at least, very liberal.

2917

Not quite the same thing but I have noticed many people who I deem otherwise quite nice and balanced veer towards the right wing (these labels aren’t all that accurate imho nowadays) when it came to brexit.

My own brother among them, who is himself an immigrant, like me, pushing hard to limit immigration and also pushing quite an English nationalistic line.

2918

Here’s a line often quoted at me by Brexiters/Alt Right/Tommy Robinson nationalists

“A dog born in a stable will never be a horse”

Your brother will never be one of them, never a full citizen, never a proper Englander, never British. No matter how much he supports them, they will never accept him.

2919

I don’t know. Maybe I should start a new thread called “Liberals aren’t so stupid after all.”

2920

It’s pretty easy to amplify things these days, for sure.

2921

I usually defend liberals in this thread, but I concede that this time the liberals are stupid.

2922

Those errors?

Tweeting out photos of students protesting Sessions and later using a campus directory to call some of those demonstrators for interviews.

Agreed. We have a right to protest in this country. It doesn’t mean we get to do it in private, and why would you want it to be private? I guess because it puts a target on your back, but if you are going to stand out in the open and do it, I assume it is known pictures and even videos will be taken.

2923

I’m of mixed feeling on this one. Yes, if you are doing something in public, it is in public. At the same time, do we want right wingers taking photos of public protesters and putting them on far right neo-nazi websites (for example)? I can understand how this get a bit creepy.

2924

I don’t know how you prevent someone taking public information and drawing conclusions from it. It also cuts both ways. Several far-right protesters were publicly identified.

2925

Here’s a thing that folks can say is actually not stupid.

For those who might otherwise not dig down into the actual story about what has happened, which seemingly includes AOC herself…

Amazon is not in fact caving and building their HQ in NYC.

What is happening is a comparatively small expansion of Amazon’s existing operations in NYC, and not in AOC’s district.

But tons of people are mistakenly thinking that Amazon has reversed their decision, and is building their HQ in NYC, but without any of the incentives.

2926

Not sure why such gaffs (especially Biden) bother me so much. The stakes maybe? Crap, if only Bernie were 20 years younger.

2927

It’s because we’re traumatized by Trump, so everything is magnified. We’ll only start getting better when we get rid of Trump.

2928

An actual senator is now backing this myth.

This is amazing.

You’d think a senator would understand the difference here.

Also, i hadn’t realized that the site for their new HQ was an old paint factory, which is currently a toxic dump site that is going to require $100M just to clean up… And now that Amazon isn’t doing it, basically no one will, so Queens gets to just continue having a toxic dump site.

2929

Is Amazon getting $3b in tax credits? Because that’s what I see being celebrated - NYC isn’t givng Amazon a truckload of incentives, and is still getting some additional jobs.

2930

Do you not know how tax incentives work? The state wasn’t paying money to Amazon. It was just going to get less money. But it was still going to get a huge amount of additional tax revenue.

Just the raw income taxes from the guaranteed jobs would have increased revenue by at least $180M every year. Plus the huge injection of cash from Amazon spending $5 billion on the new campus which would have gone to local, unionized, construction firms. Plus, even with the tax incentives for the first few years, again still would have paid half of the property taxes on that massive facility, which would have been immense.

NYC doesn’t get any of those $3B. They didn’t “save” that money, because they aren’t getting any of those taxes.

Oh, also, the Manhattan location that already existed? Already had tax incentives in place.

2931

No shit. You really need to work on being less of a condescending prick. Carry on with your AOC hate-on.

2932

Sorry dude, I apologize, but it’s annoying to see folks say that “NYC isn’t giving them all these tax incentives” as though that’s a positive.

It would only be a positive if they didn’t give them the tax incentives, and Amazon still built their HQ there.

But, despite what AOC suggests, that didn’t happen.

The net result is less tax revenue for NYC, by a huge amount. That’s not saving money. That’s losing money.

What bugs me most about this, is the fact that like Trump, AOC and her supporters are either ignorant or lying about what is happening.

That’s not cool.

2933

And the counterargument to that is: NYC is considered a top market, that isn’t hurting for companies to locate/relocate there. Amazon wants to be there, as evidenced by them already having an office in Manhattan. Amazon is also one of the richest companies in the world, and doesn’t need $3 billion in tax incentives to bring more jobs in - which is proven by them announcing a small expansion anyway. NYC would be better off either letting companies that want to move there come in (with no/minimal incentives), or enticing more, smaller businesses with the incentives that they wanted to give Amazon.

I don’t know if that’s the right decision or not, but it also comes with the subtext of the “little guy” getting a win over the massive faceless corporations that think they can get away with anything and force everyone to bend to their will. Though if you remember back when the HQ2 decision was announced, it was clear that Amazon already had locations in mind and was only using the “sweepstakes” to try and squeeze the cities for more breaks.