I’ve read Irving’s “Hitlers War” but even back then you had to read the sections around the Holocaust in context knowing of Irving’s reputation. It was before his loss in court, imprisonment and persona non grata status i think, late 80s.
I wouldn’t be stupid enough to leave it in a public photo of my bookshelf mind you.
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura deals with inequities in society WRT orcs, other fantasy races.
Shadowrun too.
Fallout 2 and F:NV both have as social commentary some “good” (or “good-but-weird” in the latter case) super mutants.
(Super mutants = sci-fi orcs.)
I have no idea all that happens in 40k. It’s probably my least favorite game setting.
It’s just human nature to need to shit on some group of people or another I guess. There’s no escaping it.
There is absolutely no reason to read David fucking Irving in 2020 (or, for that matter, in 2010, or 2000. . .) or to have his book displayed on your bookshelf in a public tweet. Even if he weren’t a Holocaust denier, there’d be virtually no reason to read his stuff—and absolutely no reason unless you are a historian doing very narrow research. At the very best, either Gove/Vine are morons or edge lords. Take your pick. The Gerke tweet above has the right read of this.
The Mein Kampf comparisons are rubbish because Mein Kampf is a primary source and of use as such. The only way something like Hitler’s War is of value anymore is if you are specifically researching crypto anti-Semitism or doing bibliographic work charting how interpretations of Hitler and Nazi rule have developed over the years (spoiler: not in the direction Irving wanted!).
Are #metoo/Dems going to continue to support Biden despite recent revelations? What direction is this going in? We’re getting very close to the election day for someone else to step in.
Aceris
3327
Your argument, then, is that politicians should issue recommendations on fighting crypto antisemitism without researching it.
You are a liberal who says stupid shit. Thanks for staying on topic!
I was saying that if you are a historian looking into how anti-Semitism covertly manifests itself, then the rather obvious clues in Irving’s writings could be of value.
There is nothing to be gained from a politician reading a hack historian in the present day.
Aceris
3329
Even a politican trying to make sure people are educated so that they understand when Irving is lying?
Irving is irrelevant now and his on-point writings are from decades ago. There are certainly more recent and pertinent anti-Semitic materials said politicians could be using to the same end.
He probably just bought it years ago and it sat on the shelf since. It’s an old print, 1978.
The only book I would remove from my bookshelves before socmedia post is my copy of PiHKAL.
I would definitely have to prune some '90s Star Wars novels. Not that there’s anything wrong with owning thousands of pages of deep dives into the post-Endor exploits of Wedge Antilles.
I’m willing to believe that, but, then again, the Irving libel suit had to have been high profile in the UK. At the very least, you’d think he’d better choose which ones are on the shelf when he shares a picture.
Irving’s reputation is such I read Hitlers War in the knowledge that the sections on the Holocaust and war crimes were biased and suspect. I’m fairly sure I read it late 80s before the libel case too, or perhaps I read it twice. I definitely read it after reading Airey Neaves account of Nuremberg hence me questioning Irving’s views. I have read lots of books on ww2 and Naxi Germany so what I read decades ago is about fuzzy. I do remember Irving’s work have lots of interesting sources though, Hitlers doctor in particular.
CraigM
3335
Sure, these were fine.
Until you Kettch on to some of the later stuff. I Danthomerely need to mention certain other eye rolling elements.
Can anyone point to Gove using Irving’s books in this fashion? Or Murray? No, I didn’t thing so.
Hard to say if this is liberal, but it’s certainly weird!
Aceris
3338
He was on the holocaust commission, and has criticised Irving in his journalistic career.
Is Irving’s book relevant to either of those things? Is Murray’s? Does he point to lies in Irving’s book?
magnet
3340
Gove explicitly condemned Holocaust deniers, at length.
I don’t think that privately reading Irving’s book means you are obligated to make a public statement denouncing Irving, for the same reason that when I privately read a Trump tweet I am not obligated to make a public statement denouncing Trump.
