I get that what AOC is asking is not feasible, but I think the spirit behind that statement is accurate and well intentioned. Based on what we know now, a lot of this election was decided by GOTV, organizing, registering and smaller ground games. While the Lincoln Project made detached sarcastic ads that warmed my coastal liberal heart, I don’t see much evidence in them having a measurable impact on the election. Maybe we’ll get a better sense later.
Hey, sixty-seven million dollars is a lot of money spent on making masturbatory attack ads. Have some sympathy!
Nesrie
3790
wth is she talking about? I know that group will turn on us in a day or so but they did a phenomenal job. And while I would love for us to be able to keep those powerful guns… they don’t owe us anything.
What does a measurable impact look like to you?
ShivaX
3791
It really isn’t. It’s turning on your allies before the results are even in.
That money that the Lincoln Project got? It’s money AOC was never getting. It’s money and talent drained from the GOP. Demanding they give it over and that it was meaningless is silly. Biden isn’t even in office and you’re talking about tearing down the alliance. You don’t have the Senate yet and might not ever have it.
Deciding that now everyone who put country over party is actually an enemy and fuck them they didn’t help is just… again, I can’t even.
Tman
3792
The Lincoln Project was instrumental for me keeping my sanity during this past year. Seeing a bunch of very smart and very capable former republicans completely denounce Trump and actively try to influence the election gave me hope. I also think they swayed a large number of republicans (RVAT) to vote for Biden as well.
A ton of money was spent this year - by all accounts dems had more money than they knew what to do with. AOC could say the same thing to the losing senators who got tons of money.
What I was saying is that I really don’t think AOC genuinely asking for that, but perhaps making a symbolic statement.
Nor am I saying make the Lincoln Project enemies.
I am only stating that (and this is totally subjective and anecdotal) I believe figure like Stacey Abrams, the black vote, the Navajo vote, and others were the real champions of this election. AOC’s tweet was dismissive , but perhaps that is what she is getting at.
From my perspective if the Lincoln Project had broad success and influence Trump would not have received 70 + million of the popular vote.
We can debate the character of the Lincoln Project once we see how they act after the election results are called. Do they keep supporting the Liberal enterprise or go back to their old ways of creating the conditions that lead to a figure like Trump rising from the GOP? And I say all that as someone that loved their work and ads.
Nesrie
3794
It’s not an either or.
Acknowledging that when we asked people on the other side of the aisle to put their country first over their party and having them actually, you know, do that, is not a diminishment of other efforts.
It doesn’t matter how they act tomorrow. They could very well have turned enough votes for us… this was a super close race, and yes that counts for something, today.
Ex-SWoo
3795
Lincoln Project is about getting rid of Trump - period. It’s not an arm of the Democrats, so that’s not a fair ask of them.
ShivaX
3796
So your standard is that they be better than the entire Democratic Party and all it’s associated organizations?
Simply put, I loved the Lincoln Project and definitely welcomed them as allies.
I don’t agree that the LP should donate their money, but I do kinda agree with the spirit of the AOC tweet that other constituencies made a larger impact in this election.
If you ignore the money part AOC is correct here. That said it is not an either or situation. Every effort, movement, and source of funding trying to topple Trump was an act of good.
AOC just knows that the LP will soon be making slick ads undermining her strategy. Though hopefully not.
ShivaX
3798
This is why I’m never worried about Leftists taking over.
Sure if you ignore what she said, it might be valid. Which is also guessing because we have no way of knowing it.
Trumpism isn’t dead, but start the purity tests and execution of allies, I’m sure it’ll be fine.
She both knows it and doesn’t? Also her strategy seemed to be to nominate Bernie Sanders and lose.
I think AOC is making sense here, plus Nesrie is right that it’s not an either/or.
It’s undeniably true that helping to support local political action and GOTV effort in communities that are struggling and disengaged is a far better allocation of mega-funds than creating even more content for our Apple and Samsung screens. I’ll take people over marketing every single time.
There’s also the whole “these guys did a lot of the damage we’re trying to fix” thing to consider here too.
Still, “taking the L” is poor phrasing if only because I think it distracts everyone’s attention from her central message which is spot on.
ShivaX
3800
So purity tests all around.
Now I don’t know the timeline, but here’s how it looks:
Lincoln Project:
Some dude: “Fuck Lincoln Project, they got a lot of money and didn’t do anything.”
AOC: “Fuck them indeed, we did all the work, also they should give us that money.”
That might win big in AOC’s district and uh… I dunno, Pelosi’s? But everywhere else it plays as arrogant.
See also: the thread where we talk about how Democrats are terrible at messaging.
The fight isn’t remotely over, but it’s already time to kill your allies. Purge the unclean!
This is my main thrust.
I welcome the LP and all their help this election. Sadly, these were some of the same Republican strategists that gave rise to the conditions that created the Frankenstein monster of Trump.
AOC had poor wording here and perhaps a bit too abrasive, but everyone’s emotions are high right now.
I’ve posted tons of LP content in this very forum nor do I want to submit them to a purity test. I just have more allegiance to AOC even with a little gaffe like this.
Timex
3802
This isn’t a logical statement.
I mean… It literally doesn’t make any sense. You are somehow attributing a perceived failure of the Democrats overall… Only to their particular contribution.
Let’s be real… you don’t actually have any idea what the impact of LP’s efforts were. Right?
ShivaX
3803
Sure, but the LP has said as much themselves.
So, shitting on their efforts and demanding money is uh… not a way forward.
It’s fucking mental is what it is.
Nothing about it makes sense on any level.
A little gaff? I’m betting she just turned a million+ ex-Republicans against the Democratic party.
I admitted as much. I said I may be entirely wrong. My hunch is that other more grassroots efforts had a larger impact. As we get more data and post-mortems of the election we will know more and I will happily recant my position.
The thing is it’s entirely academic now and neither position has much actionable evidence regarding the impact of the LP.
Two points:
- It’s really not that big of deal, it is one snarky tweet. I would have never have heard about this except that some people are really wrapped up in AOC.
- They started it! :D The Never Trumpers are constantly dropping opinions about how the Democratic party should never try to implement any of its goals. E.g. from earlier in the week:
(https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/theres-no-escaping-who-we-have-become/616992/)
“The Democrats, for their part, might look at this near-death experience, and, as they sometimes have in the past, conclude that moving left, including more talk of socialism and more social-justice activism, is just the tonic they’ll need to shore up their coalition. Some Democrats tend to believe that almost every election confirms the need to lurch to the left, when in fact the 2020 election should be a reminder that Trump would have beaten anyone left of Biden.”
The behavior isn’t particularly helpful from either side, I will certainly say that.
Timex
3806
I feel like people really like going down the “it’s just bad phrasing… What they REALLY meant was…” road a lot with AOC.
Just like Trump cultists did with him. Cults of personality seem to have this in common. The personality becomes the real thing, and any actual actions taken are perceived through a lens constructed by the viewer.
Maybe judge her on what she actually says, rather than imagining she said something smarter than she said.
