3867

Maybe the LP guys can turn their attention to un-programming all the conspiracy-addled Trumpers.

We need to regulate social media on one end but it also seems like a public health crisis that could use some serious attention.

3868

I think they’re more likely to turn their attention to finding and promoting Republicans who have the same broad policy goals as does Trump, but aren’t obviously insane stupid bigoted grifters.

3869

We don’t praise them, we praise what they did because they did it. Their actions had an affect; we just don’t know how much of one. What they do tomorrow, well we’ll be equally critical of the future but not for these actions for this one election.

3870

As i pointed out earlier, quite a lot. They worked with local Democratic groups on GOTV efforts, including black church groups who likely had a non trivial impact.

3871

Nope. They want to dismantle the Republican party (and target any Republican who backed Trump). Watch the 60 minutes on the Lincoln project for a primer.

3872

Yeah, LP was very much in the “Burn down the GOP” mode.

Which is the correct mode to be in.

3873

And when they continue to act on that plan, we should act accordingly which is, just to make sure everyone is on the same page here, NOT demanding money from them or asking them to stop.

3874

But no one is a yes-man for her, guys.

3875

Trump’s political corpse isn’t even cold yet (assuming the recounts go well) and already the far left is going after someone who helped the cause. How long do you think it will be before the AOC “wing” of the party goes after Biden for not being left enough?

3876

This is exactly the point that AOC and others have been making. The future is not order above justice centrists.

I know there’s a big battle right now over who should get the credit and the blame, and what mistakes were made.

I’ll just say this: the area where we underperformed the most demographically was Hispanic men. Bernie’s core base in 2020 was in the areas with the highest Hispanic population, such as Nevada.

I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution. I think NC’s failure was just we didn’t have enough votes to counter the white rurals going all out yet. We’re close but not there yet, we just need more good people here.

As for the never-Trumpers, I’ll say this, I respect that they put country above party, but its the policies they supported that created the situation in the first place. They’re the last folks we need to listen to when it comes to policy. If we listen to them, we’ll get a repeat of history, and next time we might not be so lucky.

Personally, I think organizing and GOTV is more effective than very well-done ads. You need money for both though.

3877

Not the Hispanics in south florida.

3878

I’m sure they started a few days ago. Maybe sooner.

Likewise, I’m sure that centrists have already started trying to influence Biden as well. And why wouldn’t they? Politics is an ongoing struggle, not a movie where everything is neatly wrapped up in the third act.

The old order is gone, which means it is time to form new alliances. People who want to advance their cause aren’t going to take a break now, in fact this is the worst time to take a break.

3879

I was trying to formulate a response, but this sums it up nicely.

3880

Since you’re quoting me, I guess I’d point you back to my first post on the subject where I said:

“taking the L” is poor phrasing

I tried to lay out a balanced response, seeing both sides of the subject by agreeing that AOC’s approach wasn’t good but perhaps her underlying message had value.

Then I fell into the trap of getting triggered by Timex and Shiva’s (I felt) overly hostile tone towards AOC. I was trying to talk about her message and I felt like everyone just wanted to bash her instead.

But let the record reflect, your honor, that I’ve agreed with everyone from the start. I dislike how these conversations often drift into false and unproductive conflict. Seems I have to fall into that trap every once in a while to remember how to avoid it!

3881

My beef with AOC is that she trumpets her views from a very safe hardcore left blue district, making her no different than the trumpeting the hardcore right politicians do from their very safe hardcore red districts.

I appreciate the President-elect saying he’s going to govern for all Americans, but I see that as literally impossible when you have a bunch of Americans who have chosen Representatives and Senators from safe districts who can then safely champion diametrically opposed points of view. Biden’s going to have to take a side on these divisive issues like abortion and gun control (his people put out a tweet for him on November 1 or 2 talking about his gun control plans, when the polls were showing the Blue Wave taking Congress and the White House - maybe now he wants to take the silent path blazed by Obama if the GOP retains control of the Senate), which will immediately shatter his effort to govern for all Americans. Is he really going to risk pushing another Gun Control Act, when even Obama would not? Is he really going to press for legislation strengthening abortion rights if it might mean huge gains by the GOP in the Mid-terms? Nobody in their safe district is going to change their mind a goddamned bit because they want to please their radical constituents and can keep their cushy jobs (“Give the Governor a Harrumph!”), so both sides will keep spewing untenable nonsense. It’s hard to represent all Americans when they vehemently disagree on issues that require a winner or a loser when critical policies are being enacted into law.

3882

Unfortunately my suspicion is she ever runs, she’s going to end up like Hillary. Losing, not based on her own merit, but because she will have been vilified for many years, and it will stick.

I don’t usually like to cross-post, but hell, this was less than 12 hours ago from ydejin. I admit I did not expect the vilification process to get so far, here.

AOC didn’t waltz into a vacant seat. She primaried a guy who hadn’t seen a primary opponent since 2004, who received the endorsements of Cuomo, Schumer, and Gillebrand, and beat him decisively. If Abigail Spanberger wants to take that seat and win one for the centrists, there was a playbook written in 2018.

“Radical constituents”…Joe Crowley was there for 20 years!

3883

Yes vilification.

She primaried a dude and then… got the seat because that’s how deep blue and red districts work.

A piece of toast would carry that district if you could it nominated.

Which isn’t to say her winning the primary isn’t impressive, because it was and still is, but it’s also completely irrelevant when talking about VA-7 a district that has been Republican since 1971 (and only swapped because the parties swapped, it was permanently Democratic back before Civil Rights). You’re talking about a district that’s basically been conservative since the Civil War. But sure, toss someone like AOC in there, they’ll win for sure.

3884

Beg pardon, I was definitely unclear there. If Spanberger (or any other centrist) wants to take NY-14 from the incumbent socialist bomb-thrower, have at it. It’s not a socialist bomb-throwing district, as evidenced by having Crowley for the prior two decades.

3885

I mean, that’s the opposite of what is happening. Literally the opposite.

Are you seriously saying that NY-14 is purple or leans blue?

It’s PVI is +29 D.

By comparison Steve Fucking King’s district is R+11.
This district never voted out Steve King. They primaried him out. The new dude won the election with 62% of the vote.
NY-14 is more liberal than the states of Wyoming, Mississippi and Alabama are conservative. More liberal than all the districts in those states save one which it’s basically the same as.

3886

It irritates me, but I agree that the seats are so different, and neither of them could win the other’s seat. Sometimes centrists win seats that could be held by someone better. My district is going to be this way because Kathy Manning bought the local party. Manning is the reason I’m not working for the Dems anymore, I want to support whoever her primary challengers are in the future.

This leads me to the question: how do you get Democratic centrists to move left?

I think it’s going to take a two-pronged approach:

  1. The most important thing is to get them to hate Republicans. This means using Trump as a hammer, and tying all Republicans into Trump, especially the parts of Trump that they hate the most, such as the protests. Make the Republicans look like the bringers of disorder.

  2. Progressives moving the Overton window left through a combination of pushing progressive ideas, and deplatforming centrist/right-wing ideas.

In short, we’re probably going to have to copy the playbook the Republicans used on us in the 80s.