CraigM
4069
This is a self obviously dumb statement, and as such I find this rejoinder
is a quite frankly disingenuous response to the conversation at hand.
Yes, having people go to an office surrounded by plague rats (kids) is clearly reducing their risk versus simply staying at home /s
Enidigm
4071
Just anecdotal, but my sister’s kids, who are always sick with colds, viruses, coughs, ect, probably because her public school is a tech magnet and has kids from all over the world there, have been basically sickness free during the Pandemic for the first time in their school aged lives as she home schools them.
I’d like to see the scientific evidence that schools are better than the population at large.
Alstein
4072
I think it would have net saved lives, as the folks who circulated the most would get the vaccine.
The health professional have good reasoning for what they think, but you have to look at political realities, and how much folks are not willing to tolerate lockdown, so I’d be trying to stop superspreaders more than save individual lives.
First responders include paramedics/firefighters, who are vital. Many cops are refusing the vaccine due to their politics.
rowe33
4073
Want to echo the ‘Get teachers vaccinated before forcing them back’ movement. Since my wife is a teacher, I say Fuck No to any plan that involves her having to teach in the classroom full-time or hybrid before getting the vaccine. We’ve socially distanced and stayed home for a year now so I see no point in throwing all that away if she’s not protected. We also help take care of her at risk mother so that’s another factor.
Who will teach if teachers get sick anyways? Right now she can teach virtually w/o any additional risk at all. I’ve never been healthier than the past year since I’m not exposed to the daily shit my kids and wife bring home from their respective schools.
I’m literally repeating what an epidemiologist said on CNN a couple of weeks ago regarding this study. The person said that at this point most parents, children, and teachers rather than remain inside by themselves, have pods. The risk of pod transmission is greater than at school transmission if appropriate precautions have been taken for the school.
But those aren’t the two choices, because not many people actually stay inside, they have pods. It appears that K-8 kids are not plague rats, just the opposite.
Speaking as a college professor I can tell you I’m not setting foot in a physical classroom until 1) I’ve been vaccinated and 2) it’s been convincingly shown that vaccination drastically reduces the probability of virus transmission.
I hate teaching online with the heat of a thousand burning suns but I’m not risking my wife or kid’s health.
Enidigm
4076
I mean, that’s an incredibly rarified take, now that i’ve looked at it.
- It assumes a greater rate of mask wearing than the general public.
- Rural school districts.
Now i think it’s possible that if you have a strong mask-wearing culture, that you make mask wearing mandatory, and that the school district has the support in the community, it may be that schools can be better than the general public, just because of the ability to enforce sanitary and mask protocols in a way the general public can’t be. OTOH, i would be very skeptical about applying this finding across the entire nation.
Enidigm
4077
Here’s the COVID dashboard just from Austin for reference.
This is a 6% positive rate for all ISD employees, or 12% rate for only teachers (if every positive case is a teacher).
The rate in Travis County overall for positive COVID is 5.8%. So either it’s the same as being in public up to twice as likely as getting it otherwise.
Either way it’s probably much worse than WFH / remote teaching.
You know more about this than I do. But after that study and this study North Carolina school study from the American Association of Pediatrics, both the CDC and AAP changed their position from being waffling about opening schools to strongly supporting in-person instruction, even without teachers being vaccinated. I assume both organizations know about this than we do.
I don’t think you should read too much in to a higher teacher Covid rates, unless we know where they got Covid. Among the small group of teachers I know they are engaged in much riskier behavior, traveling to Mexico, Europe, eating out, while almost all are teaching virtually. Perhaps they’d be more careful, feel less of a need to socialize if they were in the classroom.
https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/01/08/covid-north-carolina-schools-study-010821
My biggest worry for kids and masks is Bus travel.
Even if kids do all wear masks correctly in the classroom, it’s the periods between and the period on the bus that worries me.
No disagreement that kids out-of-sight of a teacher are more likely to be lax on masking, but I think you’ve missed a huge risk. Lunchtime. Schools do NOT have the space to enforce social distancing in cafeterias while children are maskless and eating. I’ve heard of several dodges to this, like eating in classrooms and so forth, but at the end of the day pretty much every school child has to face this. There will be a time, in school, every day, where the child is maskless in a room of other unmasked children.
Timex
4081
I like wearing a mask. It makes me feel like a ninja.
Probably do. But the challenge is more emotional/political at this point. If my employer said to me today “remote work over, time to start attending in person meetings again, and don’t wait to get vaccinated we assure you it’s safe” then I wouldn’t look at their evidence. I would quit and find a new job.
It doesn’t take too many teachers agreeing with me to cripple the education system.
At first a appoximation, the only person who needs to be worried about this is bus driver. I think a strong case should be made that bus drivers need to been vaccinated. The volume of a bus is probably 1/5 of a classroom. As Dr. Fauci explained to the 2nd grader at the town hall, kids don’t catch Covid easily and when they do get it is almost always mild.
I appreciate the need to keep teachers safe for sustainability of the in-person process, but the nightmare scenarios for me all seem like child to child sharing and infecting a number of homes as superspreader events.
Even if the Teachers get Vaccinated, are we still screwed because the students aren’t vaccinated? Is there a point to getting the teachers vaccinated, if the kids aren’t going to be?
Honest question.
They can still spread it to adults.
Kids are great at that, as much near year stomach bug can attest.
I think the risk to teachers has been found to be not too different than the risk to e.g. police officers, as I said above. Almost certainly that risk is coming not from the children in school, but from the other teachers, the admins, the maintenance staff, etc. The adults.
I’m sure that happens, just as I’m sure that some teachers have also died. If you’re going to work with other people, you’re taking that risk.
I agree which is why we need to be practical. Schools need to continue to offer virtual education for parents and teachers who don’t feel comfortable. Likewise if the only way to get sufficient teachers back into classroom is to bribe some with vaccines so be it. But it’s not just teachers, the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, and admin staff all have similar or greater risk to teachers. That’s tens of millions of dose that could be going to older people, who are many times more likely to die of Covid than school employees. That’s too many damn lives to sacrifice because of emotion.
