4109

Oh so it’s just not a true statement then.

4110

Kind of. The problem is that the UK often uses “BAME”, which stands for “Black, Asian, minority ethnic”, to mean “non-white”. So there is some confusion over whether Jews are “minority ethnic”, “ethnic minority”, both, or neither.

4111

We had a similar issue not too long ago too:

General rule of thumb is if a minority group isn’t represented in the government, and then they are, it’s’ a big deal. It will remain a big deal too for as long as they are underrepresented after that.

4112

Well, Anas Sarwar is the first non-white person to lead a political party in the UK. So that’s a big deal.

Now, how to celebrate that in the UK, where people don’t like to say “non-white”? The Tweet settled on the much more commonly used “ethnic minority”, but that term is vague and suboptimal and now the subject of criticism.

4113

Well at least I am on the same page now as to what the controversy is.

4114

In her defense, everyone seems as hilariously confused as she is:

I asked the Board of Deputies of British Jews if they think they’re BAME. After a six minute phone conversation, they weren’t sure. There isn’t an official position on the matter, so it was suggested that I should talk to their ‘Interfaith and Social Action Manager’. Even asking if the Mayor of London thinks Jews are BAME prompted a concerned phone call from his press office to find out why I wanted to know.

4115

The race relations act is not confused.

It’s really just symptomatic of the whole “jews don’t count” attitude in parts of the left, where jews aren’t a proper ethnic minority and therefore none of the special considerations that normally apply do so.

Anas Sarwar is one of the good guys, and deserves congratulations!

EDIT: I was talking about parts of the UK left here. I thought that was clear from context. I’m sorry for any genuine confusion caused.

4116

Fuck me, aren’t you the asshole who rants about the sweeping statements other people make?

4117

Well, it’s true that at least post-Corbyn Labour MPs ought to be more careful.

On the other hand, wouldn’t you agree that Anas Sarwar broke new ground? And if so, how would you have expressed it in 280 characters? “Person of color” isn’t used very often in the UK. “First Asian” underplays the significance. “First Black or Asian” is awkward. And “First BAME” puts her right back where she started.

4118

Special considerations? I’m kind of afraid to ask you what falls into this category considering the really strange way you termed this.

4119

I think I try to be careful about how I behave towards and think about ethnic minorities because of the history of discriminatory attitudes and behaviour. Not sure if I’m using the right words here. That’s what I mean.

4120

I think the challenge is ethnic, racial, religious, sexual and gender minorities are not all the same thing nor do they have the same or even sometimes similar experiences. These are complex groups with tragic and often complicated places in history. The way history is taught in this world is pretty basically awful, but I think a number of students with European links at least have some vague idea that there were and are minorities within white groups, but that doesn’t make that the same experience as those who are in racial minority group which within those groups some people can… seen as better than if not just pass. Which is yet another involved reality.

So I think what you mean by special consideration is possibly acknowledgements since we’re talking about the first someone to do something. It’s important that we celebrate firsts, but more important than firsts, is acknowledging the hard road traveled and knowing that most the time, no one wakes up and has some dream to be the first as the end goal… the end goal is to pave the way so some young child wakes up one day and realize what t some kind parents actually tell them, that the sky is the limit and it be… true.

Obviously the UK has different experiences and considerations for a variety of minority groups compared to here… but it does sound no matter what, this recent person has achieved a major accomplishment that should be celebrated. If some people don’t really know how to verbalize that, that’s because several nations are struggling with that very thing. Based on just a few hours back and forth, it doesn’t seem like it’s a Wilson and Latifah thing so much as a definition problem.

4121

It’s not a sweeping statement. Some parts of the left do have an anti-semitism problem. It’s a minority, similar to TERFs (and both are more UK than US things) , but it’s there.

Fact is, minorities are minorities, and all minorities that suffer discrimination should stick together to help reverse the systemic issues.

4122

This is what we do at the school where i work. Kids eat their lunch in their classroom and of course they’re not wearing masks. But a lunch monitor moves between the room and there’s a policy of no talking with your mask off. I sometimes put on a kid’s show on Netflix and that basically guarantees that conversations aren’t going on.

4123

Some parts of every group, however you define group, have some bigots. Singling out the left particularly in the UK as anti-Semitic is a hit job, a manufactured one, akin to saying e.g. that some Dems traffic in child sex slaves out of pizzeria basements.

4124

At a certain point it goes beyond a few bigots and into a problem. I don’t think the left is anti-Semitic, but there definitely is an anti-semitism problem with some leftist types.

4125

I think this is right that every group does have bigots. From my own experience, I’ve found a lot more anti-Semitism in the political left of the US and UK than I have in the political right. I’d also say I’ve seen it with increasingly frequency on the left.

4126

Only the western left is willing to call out Israel on its Palestinian policies. For whatever reason, maybe because they always place themselves as a foil to their left regardless of the issue, the right lionizes Israel and sweeps the Palestinian question under the rug. The last Middle East Peace plan wasn’t bad, but wrapped up in the details of the language was essentially a renegation of the Palestinians as an historic people with a right to self sovereignty, even if left leaning or pro-Palestinian camps may not want to admit negotiating on anything other than an equal basis is humiliating if practically inevitable.

Unfortunately this always-supporting-Israel-no-matter-what narrative does drive some far leftists into anti-Semitic rhetoric. But that has to hardly be strange nature of pro-Israel support in the West anyway, including bizarre millennialism by evangelicals that look to the Book of Revelations and hope the re-establishment of Israel will “prove” the New Testament and bring about the end times.

Leftist anti-Semitism would go away more or less overnight if the Western Right declared with them support for Palestinian sovereignty and self determination and made a serious multi-national effort and driving both states into a reasonable and humane solution.

To be honest it’s a bit like the right supporting wife-beaters, and when some leftists declare themselves to be misandrists in response, the right bleating that oh look, they really hate men, don’t they? and decide that maybe wife beating isn’t really that bad after all because those wives are really violent man-haters.

4127

I wish it was just about Israel. I’ve actually been surprised at how many anti-Semitic tropes are used on both sides. The idea that Jews are fake and the real chosen people are X, Jews have a nefarious control over our media and financial systems, Jews are more loyal to their group/international cabal and cannot be trusted to advance the national interest, etc. All of those tropes and more are certainly present, and growing, in the left of the US and the UK.

4128

I’m sure you can find people who subscribe to the good-old-fashioned anti-Semitism of yore, but i’d be surprised if this was making significant inroads in either sides’ political culture.