5120

It serves the purpose of not being an asshole at the cost of minimal effort on your part. Deliberately choosing otherwise is your choice, but it’s certainly A Choice.

5121

Sweet juxtaposition.

5122

And those people who want to be referred to as Ms. instead of Mrs.? What’s with that?

5123

No, not using any pronouns at all and always using someone’s full name every time I refer to them, is in fact more than minimal effort.

Again, there is a reason why pronouns exist in the language. They serve a functional purpose, and a single individual does not get to change that just because they want people to treat them differently from literally everyone else.

You’re free to not use pronouns. Go nuts.

5124

In the hypothetical situation where that came up, sure, I’d do my best to refer to someone without pronouns. I’d probably slip but would hope that this imaginary, non-Bob Dole person would see that I’m trying and be understanding. If they were an ass about me making a mistake then I’d certainly reevaluate my relationship with them.

But I can’t say I’ve ever run into that. How many people do you know that have made that request? Or are you being a jerk just for the sake of it?

5125

How am I being a jerk, for refusing to abide by a ridiculous request that is so rare that you have never encountered it?

How could that request possibly be so essential to accomodate, given that virtually no one anywhere would even consider demanding it?

You guys are acting like it’s your responsibility to accomodate ANY request, no matter how absurd. No man, it’s not your responsibility at all.

5126

Never before has someone been so hypothetically put upon.

5127

It’s nearly an affront!

5128

That’s why this is so nuts… you guys are defending a person while simultaneously denying their very existence.

You could just say, “Yeah, that would be a fucking stupid request, so stupid in fact that no reasonable person would ever do that.”

But instead, because this is what this thread is about, you’re defending this totally ridiculous request, out of some desire to be friendly to transgender people, despite the fact that it has literally nothing to do with gender.

5129

LOL, WUT

5130

I’d say we’re responding more to your absolute vehemence than to the ridiculous “debate”.

A whole bunch of us have generally agreed with you but that all gets ignored.

5131

Look at us crazy liberals, defaulting to empathy for someone with life experiences we haven’t had!

Based on this response is it safe to assume you haven’t come across this request?

5132

Of course I haven’t! No reasonable person would make such a request.

5133

I am somewhat sympathetic to the basic point that many people are sick of everyone being a fucking snowflake.

5134

Sure, as I said, lots of us agree on that point. But maybe we should stick to real-life examples of that which we personally encounter. Do we need to make stuff up to get indignant about?

5135

Let me ask you a question, have you read Ann Leckie’s books? The Imperial Radch trilogy (Ancillary Justice/Mercy/Sword) and Provenance?

They are examples of books that have non standard (to American conception) pronoun use, and ambiguous genders. In the Ancillary series the POV character is literally an AI who cannot comprehend biological gender, so everyone is ‘she’, and Provenance is a society where gender is chosen once they reach adulthood, and otherwise use non binary pronouns as descriptors for most characters.

It works just fine.

As for in person, well the game store I go to had an employee who was trans. I never knew what their preferred pronouns were, I’d never asked, but didn’t find it difficult to communicate with or about them. Mostly used their name. (I believe she is preferred, but rather than use an incorrect pronoun, I was able to just restructure sentences to eliminate the issue). And I’m sure had I used the incorrect pronoun it would not have been a big deal, it would have been clearly an honest mistake so no hard feelings would have been harbored.

5136

This started as a stupid post where it included the idea of no pronouns alongside the other, reasonable notions of calling people by the pronouns they requested.

It wasn’t like I randomly said, “Ya know what I hate? Those people who don’t use pronouns!”

5137

That’s how I approach the issue in my classroom. I have enough trouble remembering names. I want to accommodate pronouns. But more than that, I don’t want to fuck up pronouns, so I avoid the issue altogether. I suspect tons of people do this. It’s something I would think about a lot if I were trans, not wanting special treatment or to feel like I was making people feel awkward in the basics of how we speak.

Sure, we know, but Thrag pointed out that it was beside the point of that post but you really kept going. It can be frustrating when we reply “you’re right, but also…” and then you treat it like we’re in strong disagreement.

5138

But folks weren’t saying it was dumb… they were defending it, saying that it was in fact totally acceptable for people to demand that people not use pronouns.

It’s like… why defend that? That thing that, also, people were saying was not something anyone would do anyway (because it would be fucking stupid to do it).

5139

For the opportunity to make Bob Dole jokes. Bob Dole.