Linux gamers rise up!
I am fascinated to see where this goes.
I almost want to change my avatar to avoid the splash back here. :)
UNIX is what brought us things like Multi User Dungeons and is from the beginning a social enviroment OS. Things like /bin/wall, finger, and protocols like irc… these things invented the idea of blog, forum, wall… many years before they entered the vocabulary of the hoi polloi when they where repackaged has products / closed wardens. To me UNIX is the pulsating heart of the Internet and still a source of inspiration to invent the future.
But for games I would use windows because is easier to run software in the enviroment where it was tested, is just the path of least resistance.
I don’t know what’s extreme about it, but yes, that’s probably a quick way to failure. I do think it’s in everyone’s interest to consider free/open source tools as well as releasing for Linux, even if they’re going to make the same choices for practical reasons. It’s a good thing to be aware of, even if it changes nothing.
Npm is a known special kind of hell. I have no idea how people have so much trouble and spend so much time just fixing the desktop. I’m using Arch and I don’t, when it’s supposed to brake more often. It obviously happens, since a lot of people say it does, and its more complicated than Windows’ fuckups, but I have a hard time understanding the level of complaints.
It is what it is, and it’s the only game in town that gets you safety and security. Don’t be hostile, especially when you need people who realistically have no choice.
I’m with you on this. Going further, I have a much easier time finding solutions for esoteric Linux problems than esoteric Windows problems, at least in part because Linux gives you visibility into sources of esoteric problems, whereas Windows (where everything should just work) makes the assumption that everything is just working, and rarely provides the tools you need to troubleshoot difficult things.
This guy gets it. Never underestimate our need to be lazy for leisure.
You misunderstood my post. Sorry.
I was making the argument that the console is not a “old” thing. I understand why users on the windows enviroment may think that. I was just explaining that is far from the truth.
And yea, the node enviroment is full of smart people and dumb decisions and correct decisions made wrong by having them take to the extreme. When anything is related with js you have to take the good parts and avoid the bad parts.
There are reasons people use Microsoft proprietary tech in their games. I am going to go out on a limb and guess they are either easier or more performant or both than the open standard versions, where such things even exist. I would be all for committing to using and improving cross-platform tech to make it easier and more likely to support Mac and Linux, but I don’t think that’s a non-trivial ask and the benefit to companies isn’t necessarily higher than the problems it would introduce.
Also, having personally tried to code Java, a theoretically platform independent language, on both Windows and OS X, it’s actually surprisingly platform dependent. I bet that is also true for other such things.
Game devs have no problem using whatever exoteric hardware/software the console makers demand, even is is utter shit. We just dont read horror histories about it because is behind NDA’s
Game devs are more money motivated than fans of windows, I believe
They’re not necessarily from Microsoft, but they’re Windows only. Even then, I was surprised a few years ago when I found OpenAL and FMOD in a ton of games, or the resurgence of XNA with MonoGame.
I’m still going to be annoyed when devs don’t look at the list of common problems and fixes with Unity; that’s not the hard part, guys.
Actually, we do often hear about console game development and which systems are better than others. At least, we used to, because they were so different. Even in the PS3/Xbox 360/Wii generation we consistently had information on why developers preferred the 360. It was because the dev tools were better and they were more aligned with the Windows PC, where most of the expertise was coming from because that gen was very Western driven. Most companies complained about Sony because of Cell tech and Nintendo because it was “old” tech and much more proprietary.
With this generation the bitching has been minimal because everyone adopted roughly PC-like specs and has pretty good OSes and tools for devs. I don’t want to say development is “easy” now, but it’s just more familiar to everyone. The Japanese adapted and caught up with their Western counterparts for the most part via Unreal Engine, Unity, etc. so no one really has anything to complain about right now.
It’s really not about NDAs. You can find a lot of moaning and groaning in every gen before this one.
News flash at 11: Linux gamers continue to be insufferable twats while Mac gamers are a quiet, abused minority with Apple doing stuff like …whatever it is they’re doing with their Apple TV strategy when Minecraft had to end support.
I do envy you, untethered to business realities like “profit” and ROI. It must be nice up there on your lofty perch where you can look down on the rest of us mortals and judge us.
I also think your attitude that devs should feel obligated to support an alternative OS to spite Windows is…interesting, I guess? I suppose you pity nearly every development company that exists.
It feels to me like you’ve got some issues eating you up that you should maybe deal with.
Platform spend is huge too. Nvidia and Intel (and I guess AMD, sort of) spend a ridiculous amount of money building, debugging, and optimizing Windows/DirectX drivers. If they spent a fraction of that on Linux/Vulkan drivers, it’d go a long way.
I don’t know about the mesa code, but Intel is probably the best company out there about getting support for their hardware into the kernel. They have a very large kernel team. It will be interesting to see how the discrete gpu work goes.
Mac OS usually feels slicker to me than whatever version of Windows I’m on, but not so much as to make me feel one is awesome and the other terrible. Also I’m so used to Windows that the little differences on Mac add up to an annoyance. I do like the spacebar preview function on images, though.
My 2008 Mac Pro, the most expensive computer I ever bought by a significant margin, crashed all the time, which made me pretty annoyed when people would evangelize about how stable Macs were. Maybe I got a lemon, dunno.
I have no idea where you get stuff like that from, but I specifically stated that you need to earn enough money to sustain yourself. This has nothing to with investments, we’re not talking about the soulless financial sector here. If you want to talk about THAT, don’t do it with me. There is little I despise more.
If your only goal is to amass riches, then your life is empty. That shouldn’t be news to anyone. Earning money only for the sake of earning money is not fulfilling. Most people must do it anyway, I know.
But the few people that do form a company - in most cases - do so in order to work towards a goal that is dear to them. Especially gaming studios.
Profit simply doesn’t come first for most game devs - or they wouldn’t be game devs to begin with. It is well known that game development doesn’t make you rich (if you don’t luck out like Notch or so).
So if maximizing profit does not come first, and if doing a Linux port is not a major amount of work (which it simply isn’t if you use the right libraries/tools/engines, which many do), then you might as well do it.
It isn’t to spite Windows, specifically. It is to prevent a monopoly, which is a harmful state for many reasons. I’d behave the same way if the roles were switched around, encouraging people to really try out alternatives before they stick to something.
Although I am not surprised any more by some people feeling immediately attacked by the mere mention of the existence of alternatives. Simply mention Linux anywhere without any other intention and you immediately get the usual suspects feeling a need to talk smack as if to defend their decision to… I don’t even know what they are defending, but the ritual is the same everywhere.
I’m not the one with issues, I’m the one with solutions.
As someone who has been doing cross-platform development both professionally and just for fun for over 10 years, I can assure you it is absolutely true.
Choose the right tools for the job, aim at cross-platform from the get-go, and the additional work is minimal.
Of course, porting a project that was never meant to be anywhere else than Windows to Linux is in many cases a nightmare. But that’s not what I’m talking about.
True cross-platform development is not about porting.
Except even with RedHat there are plenty of things you can’t run on RedHat’s 7, because the system libc is too old, leading to horrible hackery.