Yeah, SAC and SAC:2nd Gig are amazing.
Let’s be optimistic, it could be another Aeon Flux.
Hahahahahaaaaa… Aww now I’m sad.
Steering this off-topic a bit:
If one hasn’t watched anything Ghost in the Shell related before, what would I watch, and in what order (that is worth watching, of course)? It seems there are multiple versions/sequels/prequels/whoknowswhatelse.
Yeah, there is no absolute order of things to watch because they don’t all come from the same continuity or universe.
In general the two SAC television series had superior writing, characterization, and stories, but the films generally had better animation and graphic design, depending on your opinion of how much CGI and cel animation should mix, anyway…
The main thing is to not watch Arise until last, and quite possibly not at all unless you are a big fan. It’s okay, I guess, but to my mind it’s more like a simulation of GITS than the real thing. Another thing is not to read the manga. This is one of those cases where the anime is far superior to the comic.
But I guess I would watch the first movie first. Then the TV series, then if still in need of more, the remaining movies. The movie gives a nice introduction to the concepts of the world and characters, whereas the TV series is deliberately both pretentious and not terribly expositional up front, so you might get a bit confused if you just start with SAC, despite its superiority as an overall achievement.
I’ve watched it all multiple times, and I still think the best place to start is with the original film. Gives you a grounding in the concepts that show up everywhere in SAC, even though it’s not a direct prequel. Think of it more as alternate reality or reboot.
The Stand Alone Complex TV shows are next (the original and 2nd Gig, which are really just season 1 and 2). It’s a big time investment to go through it all, though. There are slimmed-down releases called The Laughing Man and individual Eleven that recap the big storylines if you want something shorter, but I personally feel it’s well worth going through it all. Some of the best episodes are one-offs, IMHO. Then you have the SAC: Solid State Society movie. All that stuff is in a consistent universe.
Then you have the Arise series, which is a reboot taking place prior to the Major joining Section 9. Personally, I think SAC is better which is why I recommended it first. I still liked Arise well enough, as well as the followup movie, but it’s a step down from SAC for me.
And finally there’s Innocence, which is a sequel to the original movie. It’s…very different. I hated it the first time I watched it, then put it on again years later when I was going through all things GITS again, and actually enjoyed it. You could put this up at the top with the original movie, or save it until last, or just ignore it entirely.
If you like watching anime, just watch it all. If you only have time for a movie, watch the original. 2 movies? Then watch both. If you only have limited time but you can watch a whole season, watch Stand Alone Complex season 1. If you have more time, watch 2nd Gig too.
If you dislike anime, you’re not going to start liking it for this, so just ignore all above advice. Although almost all of the tropes in anime are missing from this stuff, so it’s not a bad place to start, SAC particularly.
I’d watch the original movie first. No matter what came after it, even if you might feel it’s better, the movie is what is celebrated and gives some nice insight in to Japanese culture and ideas. This is assuming that like most the manga, the true first, is not of interest.
Wow, thanks all. Almost regretting having asked, there is even more than I realized out there! My kids are the anime freaks, so I’ve been indoctrinated enough to be able to handle it - calling something a ‘big time investment’ means if I bring it up to them the binging will start tonight I expect.
Everyone references the ‘original film’ (1995) above - is that better than GITS 2.0, which appears to be just a refresh of the original?
Yeah, just watch the original.
Just a note of agreement with what everyone here has said, with the possible exception that I do think SAC transcends the medium/style of anime (while avoiding a lot of the stupid tropes and visual language nonsense that puts me and I’m sure plenty of others off) to the point that I’d recommend it even to someone who actively dislikes anime.
Just an FYI - SAC is expiring on 2/18 for Hulu
New trailer:
nope. not enthused.
— Alan
Really? I found the only thing Japanese about the Ghost in the Shell movie are the character names, and maybe how badly everyone acts towards Motoko when she is late to work one day. Otherwise it was just a bunch of cyborg police going after a cyber-criminal who hacks people’s cyberbrains in a city that actually resembles Hong Kong more than Tokyo. I tried reading all the city signage in the movie but 90% of it is Chinese characters. (And the English is usually the name of some Chinese restaurant) Never came across any kana. :(
Well, it’s definitely a take on cyborg police that’s more reflective of Japanese culture than, say, Robocop.
It’s deeper than you think, but that’s a key to Japanese culture too, subtlety.
After all, maybe often means no in Japan. It would be rude to say no. Kanji, for Japanese, and Chinese are roughly the same characters by the way, different meaning. Katakana is different and Hiragana just helps you enunciate. Japan just took the Chinese characters and made it theirs.
There’s definitely a strain of animism running through Ghost in the Shell (which becomes really explicit in the sequel) that feeds into its existential questions that just doesn’t play coming from a western source.
The thing that really bugs me about this one though is the hackneyed “chosen one” shit they’re hinting at. Jesus fuck why can’t cyborg cops in a post-cyberpunk future be sizzle enough?
Umm, I can read some Japanese kanji (and all the kana), but nearly everything is in Chinese.
Subtlety isn’t uniquely Japanese either, and the implication is Japanese have a hard time saying no and in general prefer to use indirect language, and there’s honne vs. tatemae, but you don’t really need to understand these concepts to understand Ghost in the Shell at all. It is way more universal, focusing more on identity(Ghost) and what it means when your body is totally artificial/interchangeable(Shell).
The ending is VERY Neuromancer with hints at creating a similar Super Consciousness. The merging of Motoko and the Puppet Master is not unlike the merging of Neuromancer and Wintermute.
I haven’t seen any of the other movies/shows or read the manga so I can’t comment on those.
I never said you needed to understand these concepts to enjoy the movie. I can read some Japanese Kanji too, but that doesn’t mean I would say that something isn’t Japanese because they’re using Chinese characters. It’s the same character even if it’s a different language.
If someone is interested in Japanese culture, which might include pop-culture which definitely includes manga and therefore anime, those two are inter-linked in a unique way, then it’s fair to say that one of their more prominent anime feature films has insights into Japanese culture… because it does. I am not claiming it’s a dictionary or almanac to all things Japanese. Why are you acting like I am?
Is anime really a good indicator of Japanese culture? I have always wondered how many Japanese actually watch anime after a certain age because even in the animes themselves the people who watch animes are considered to be a side group in school/society (like comic book readers were in the US).
I would have thought that Ghost in the Shell is more universal in the Sci Fi sense with cyborgs and the like, and is a part of the Geek culture overall.