Anime exposes certain parts of Japanese culture, just like a variety of movies in other countries expose theirs. Ghost in the Shell, which is a serious movie, is especially interesting on a number of fronts but this includes links to Shinto. This belief that there is life in something that is not animated.
I am not talking about all animes here, Akira, the Ghibli films and Ghost in the Shell aren’t necessarily in the league of something like BLEACH. I don’t even know what everyone watches for anime these days. I don’t watch it. But there are certain manga/anime (and in Japan they are almost interchangeable only because you dont’ really get to anime without doing manga first; it’s a slightly unusual requirement), that are studied for specific reasons.
For example, I think a lot of people assume when you say tadaima you’re saying, I’m home… to the people. You’re not. You’re telling the house, the spirit of the house, you’re home. I assume like anything traditional some of the younger generation may not see it that way, but that’s the origin.
Look, I love you all. But maybe let’s leave the unpacking of Japanese cultural relevance/provenance of pop culture works like GITS to someone who is a little more directly involved?
Well you said it gives insight into Japanese culture and ideas. I simply can’t really follow that statement after watching the film. In fact I’d argue the opposite. This anime may have appealed widely precisely because it isn’t very Japanese.
As for the Chinese signage that is in Chinese. (Who knew?) I did some research on this. Apparently it is because in the world of Ghost in the Shell, there was a flood of Chinese refugees, and the artists mostly used Hong Kong as a reference model.
Manga and anime is very Japanese. If you’re interested, there are academic studies for it. I would do one better though and go live there for awhile, like I did… But as Adam B said, this is some live action version of a studied anime movie, not the place to argue the merits of an anime classic.
I don’t really know what full meta means, but I’m just assuming you have a personal interest since you replied to that almost a month after I posted it and talked about Japanese culture. If you haven’t studied, lived or visited Japan I completely recommend it. It’s an experience worth having, and you don’t have to spend all your time in Akihabara which I didn’t find all that worthwhile, but others did.
Meta can have many meanings but in this case it means you were arguing outside of the context of the movie and about Japan and anime in general instead. When applied to gaming, it is literally the game outside of the game. The scene from The Princess Bride with the poison cup is a prime example. The game is simply to drink your cup, but there is a separate game being played outside of it.
I didn’t read the thread until today so sue me? Just please stop making assumptions. I’ve lived in Japan for a time. Aki is lame. Den Den Town or the greater Nipponbashi area (Osaka) is far more interesting now although much harder to navigate which probably makes it more impenetrable to foreign tourists. It is a maze of alleyways that all look alike.
Well, let me join the conversation. For me the most interesting thing about Japanese pop culture (I’m guessing other Asian production might qualify, but I’m not well known in those) is not the small cultural subtleties in character behaviors (that’s just a given of watching stuff not from your own culture, although by my experience Americans are less likely to do this) nor in the bid themes it treats (Avatar and Monon one can be said to share many thematic elements) but because of their willingness to open themselves structurally to shapes that suit the story being told instead of pushing the story to fill a mold (I HATE the Heroe’s Journey, the most overused and misused structural framework ever devised - OK slight exaggeration ).
For all the tropes present in anime and Manga (and there are soon many) the overall progression of a series is often surprising and willing to go places few Western equivalents go to. And they do that while keeping g the productions incredibly commercial, we are not talking about author pieces here at all.
It’s changing now with the advent of serial production in the West, but a lot of things series like GoT and others do in terms of story structure the Japanese were already doing in the 80s.
That’s why I hate this concept of “the chosen one” being shoved into the movie. They are most likely westernized the structure and serving us the same movie yet again…
The Chosen One is uniquely chosen by heritage or ability in the standard trope, not just chosen contingently by circumstances. IMO the major is not a Chosen One in the original film. She just happens to be a sufficiently alienated cyborg with good hacking skills in the right place and time to engage with the AI. Presumably there are many around that world who could also have qualified.
Does anyone know if Ghost in the Shell was directly influenced by Neuromancer? This might be a stupid question since Neuromancer is the godfather of cyberpunk but I would like to see a smoking gun.
I haven’t watched Ghost in the Shell in some time, but I definitely don’t remember walking away with some idea that she was the Chosen One. If that’s the direction the Live Action is going, I think it missed something in the interpretation or it’s just another take on the themes. A Live Action remake of an anime which takes from manga itself is going to have a changed POV, and that doesn’t have to be a bad thing.
I think there is a reason this series was taken seriously, so the source material is worth looking at even if the live action version differs.
You made assumptions yourself. I don’t know how you can live in Japan and not think manga/anime reflects the culture there. I just don’t… You’re free to have that pov, but mine is differently, clearly. And I gave you reason why I think the way I do; you don’t have to agree with those either.
Let’s try this again. Ghost in the Shell is one of the anime/manga series that is often studied when it comes to manga and anime. Why do you think that is? I am suggesting, in addition to the technical aspects of the anime, there’s insight into the Japanese culture in there which i said from the very beginning. It would be silly to say anime and manga do reflect Japanese culture but not this one which is often studied for insight into anime and manga which is a part of the study of Japanese pop-culture itself.
To be clear, I am still talking about Ghost in the Shell. And now they’ve taken into the live action territory but maybe lost some of the intricacies with the move.
But i am not going to sit here and argue with you about my recommendation. You clearly don’t agree, but that doesn’t change my recommendation. And if it wasn’t clear to you, my recommendation didn’t come out of left field. I have some experience here, that’s the reason I mentioned that experience, the only reason.
Well simply put I have no idea what you are talking about.
You can say Ghost in the Shell has insight into Japanese culture until the cows come home, but you need to actually back up that claim with an actual argument…with facts. Something solid. Hard data. Even observations. What you see, what you hear. Anything other than blanket statements. In a weird way I want to help you, but honestly your quest is vain. You just should have left it alone. Because Ghost in the Shell is mostly just cyborg police fiction in a fictional city against a fictional enemy with little to do with Japanese culture. (But I did pointed out the late-to-work thing)
I mean, if we just accept anime/manga as baseline components of Japanese culture, and GITS as a particularly notable example of one or both, then yes, it’s absolutely a useful tool for understanding a part of Japanese culture–the anime and manga part, even if it reflects nothing of broader cultural issues like religion or linguistics.
In the same way that Game of Thrones lends a useful glimpse into American culture, insofar as GRRM is, you know, American.
I mean, I’m just jumping in to jump in for the hell of it. I never even saw GITS. Parents wouldn’t let me rent it :)
Possibly but I don’t think the AI would have wanted to merge if the Major hadn’t been the type of person she was. And she is one of the most skilled hackers/whatever around. But yeah, obviously they’ve taken the notion of the movie to extremes–oh she’s the first, she experiences this more than anybody, etc. It’s extremely annoying. While the manga isn’t totally clear, the anime series places her total conversion (“I said total body prosthesis!!”) when she was a young kid (say 8-10 years old) after an airplane accident, which definitely makes her a bit more unique as for the length of life she’s spent in artificial bodies, but that’s about it. The length of time utilizing a cyberbrain has made her a bit more experienced than most, that coupled with being in the military has given her a lot of skills and usage. But cyberbrains and total body conversions are completely in the norm by this stage–in fact by the time of the anime you’re seeing the backlash of diseases as a result (such as cyberbrain sclerosis, which is a plot element in the first season).
The movie again appears to make this more of an entirely unique situation with her (and Kuse, apparently)–even Batou only appears to be partially done, since there are some funky skin grafts on his chest. Also note that Togusa–a very white person in pretty much every other incarnation–is Asian in the movie. Oh the irony.
As for Japanese culture, there are I think pointed hints, like the detachment from society and self-worth, interchange-ability, technology integration and disruption, culture absorption, etc. It’s not really a direct attack on Japanese culture, more like an observation. It’s kind of interesting that Scarlett Johansson first came to the public eye in Lost in Translation and now we come full circle to this.
Yeah, I guess I don’t understand the argument between @Nesrie and @roguefrog here. I don’t know what specific insights Ghost in the Shell offers to a student of Japanese culture, but I don’t see how anyone can watch the original anime or read the manga and not see that it is absolutely a Japanese creation.
Well the characters have Japanese names. My point is simple. Ghost in the Shell’s story and themes have little to do with Japanese culture. It is “international” and should be praised as such given it was 1990fucking5. Whether or not it is a Japanese creation, with a Japanese art staff, and Japanese voice actors, Japanese etc…is besides the point. I am not arguing that since that is a given.
