Yes, it would seem that Sun and Ben are working towards the same goal, returning everyone to the island, but for different ends. Sun may be totally playing Widmore about her desire to kill Ben. I don’t wonder if her real motive is to return to the island and somehow destroy it as the ultimate up yours to Widmore, whom she really blames for Jin’s death. It was obviously either Ben or Sun that sent the “attorneys” to Kate knowing that it would make her want to run and hide, and where better to hide than the island again?
The bit at the end with the people shooting fire arrows and the guys with guns, it’s obviously in the past, but how far? I wonder if they went all the way back to when Dharma first sent a team to secure the island from the “hostiles” (Richard’s people)?
I guess that’s why Richard was angry when Locke picked the knife as a kid. Richard must have thought that that’s when Locke was supposed to get the compass to be able to give it to him in the future/past, maybe?
HRose
4023
Well, I’ll be the first (and only?) to disagree.
Instead of revealing something they just kinda nudged the thing on a new front. What upsets me the most is that a lots of stuff is being shown, but we aren’t given any motivation.
We don’t know why Locke had to die, we don’t know what Faraday has planned, we don’t know what’s Ben’s plan this time beside bringing them back, and we don’t know why they should. We don’t know why Sayid told Hurely not to trust Ben.
Basically we don’t know the rules and we don’t know character’s motives. We are just being shown stuff happening, probably because they have a season to cover and by the end of it all the cast back on the island. The rest seems merely speculation and panning in order to align for the last season.
robsam
4024
A lot of valid points, but I still enjoyed this episode. Maybe it was just because it’s nice to see something new, but I thought it was great. I long ago gave up on really trying to figure it all out to get there before the writers, I just sit back and enjoy the story, hoping to catch up on the things I missed when they reveal it fully. Otherwise, this show would be frustrating as hell for me. I’m a passive viewer, I guess.
They’ll all be back on the island well before the end of the season. I bet it’ll only take a couple more episodes.
HRose
4026
On the Lostpedia this kind of worried me because it’s exactly the same vibe I felt:
Damon Lindelof describes Hawking as “some sort of temporal policeman in place to make sure that everybody who is supposed to get to the island, does.” He says this is related to the grand scale of Fate versus free will.
Ms. Hawking shares a few similarities to the characters Frank and Grandma Death in the movie Donnie Darko, including her observation that everyone dies.
Huge Deus Ex Machina there.
Not just Desmond out the rules, even her, and ideally Locke.
Crater
4027
It’s actually a well known issue called an ontological paradox. It doesn’t have a solution, but those objects only exist in that closed temporal loop.
They had a great puzzle like this in Monkey Island 4. The future Guybrush comes up to you, and hands you three random items in order. You then go about your way, and later have to give those items to your past self.
Not if you believe what they have to say. This season is supposed to be about them getting back, and next season is supposed to be about what they do when they get back. That was from a podcast a while back - not sure if it still holds, but they’ve been good about keeping one overarching storyline per season.
HRose
4029
The more I think about it the more I’m annoyed that they never answers all the mysteries they left behind, just moved the story on new grounds.
All Michael’s son freaky stuff, Libby spying on Hurley at the mental asylum, his curse with the numbers, the four toed statue, the Dharma station with the reports going nowhere, the smoke monster, all the predestination thing with all characters meeting each other, Claire more recent freaky stuff and “Jacob”…
They mentioned the interconnection during the hour recap, so I think it’s still on the producer’s minds.
Since Libby and Anna Lucia were fired from the show, I’m not sure how much we’ll get out of that. I know Anna was back last night, so I don’t know if that means things have thawed between the actors and the producers, or if was just a one-time thin.
They also mentioned the statue during the recap, so I don’t think it’s forgotten about either.
Claire’s stuff was fairly late in the season, so that may not turn up for a while.
HRose
4031
Well, at least the smoke monster, Jacobs, the wheel Ben pushes, Jack’s father resurrection and Claire may all fall in the same category.
But they definitely littered the series with small things that won’t likely have any place.
bloo
4033
Charlotte’s problems are because she doesn’t have a constant, right? But everyone else has everyone else?
Let’s get a count on Richard’s toes.
I can’t tell. Everybody else who’s suffered the Time Shift Brain Melt has bounced back and forth between the past and the future and the present and wherever else they go and acted pretty crazy, but she seems to pretty much have her senses about her. It’s probably the best explanation, though I’ll freely admit that until somebody reminded me that that totally happened to Freighter-Guy-Whose-Name-I-Can’t-Recall-at-This-Time-of-the-Morning I thought she just had a regular, run of the mill brain tumor. Another possibility being bandied about in the more…ahem…dedicated Lost fora is that the redheaded baby that Marvin Candle was taking care of in the beginning of the premier is her and she’s getting sick because she’s, you know, within shouting distance of meeting herself, but I’m not sure I buy that.
One question:
In the Constant episode, Army Desmond met Daniel at Oxford. Shouldn’t Island Desmond have known him when he opened the door?
No, because Island Desmond’s conciousness was inhabiting Army Desmond’s mind at the time. When Island Desmond found his constant and stopped popping about in time, only that version of him retained any knowledge of what had transpired. Presumeably Army Desmond can’t explain why he deserted or what he was doing during the time he was gone, hence his stint in the military lockup way back when the character was first introduced.
Army Desmond was possessed by Freighter Desmond at the time. My interpretation was that Possessed Army Desmond wouldn’t retain any memories of what happened when he was possessed by Freighter Desmond.
I forget, what happened to Freighter Desmond and Nosebleed Freighter Guy Who Played Ben Jahrvi in Short Circuit when their consciousnesses were in other time periods? Were their bodies just unconscious in the freighter time period?
That makes perfect sense, thanks.
How come talking to Desmond would have been altering the past too much, but Locke killing a bunch of Dharma Initiative guys is okay?
Because they are redshirts in a combat zone. But, Saywer and Loche meeting before the crash happened would mess things up.
But, because both Desmond and Daniel have time-traveled in a sense – or because of Desmond’s post-EMP issues – he’s outside the rules.
