Maybe someone kneeling before Christ?
Normally that kind of stuff goes over my head, but they were laying on the “Thomas the Apostle” stuff pretty thick in the previous episode.
So Ben’s a bad guy again?
Yes, but who is the woman he left with? Sun? Seems logical she would have zapped to the past but in the preview it looked like she was interacting with Ben who we know didn’t.
Not necessarily. I mean, yeah, he murdered Locke, so that’s kind of mean, but he also went out of the way to keep the body well preserved, presumably knowing the death was temporary. I do hope they really make an attempt to explain why Locke supposedly had to die though and don’t just leave it as more mystical flim-flam.
When has Ben ever NOT been a bad guy? He’s vowed to kill Penny, who’s more or less an innocent bystander, and we may yet find out he’s done it. And if he’s trying to save all the left-behinders, there’s a reason that benefits him. He didn’t give two shits about them when they were all on the island together.
Did you see him in the last ep?
Because otherwise it wouldn’t match the Jesus allegory. Which itself is important because … Well, mystical flim-flam.
I hear you.
At least this episode was far more interesting than the last. Though the Walt meeting seemed particularly pointless.
Clearly it was the Jin factor which changed Ben’s mind - so let’s see how they work that out. But apparently Ben is still following along the plan that Locke had meant to, so … I’m hoping next episode they get right into the conversation they’ll be having and don’t spend a lot of time detailing Hurley purchasing seventy-five tickets, or something.
Wader
4310
The AV Club reviewer seemed to think (and I agree) that the pointlessness of all of the early meetings (Locke didnt seem very enthused about them either) was to drive home: 1. A reasoning of why Locke would kill himself (He doesnt really know how to get anyone to go back, the only woman he ever loved is dead, and he’s stuck back in the wheelchair), and 2. that his death was the only way these people would be willing to come together and be sold on the idea of going back.
I think two things drove Ben to kill Locke. The first, as you said was the fact that Locke told Ben that he promised not to bring Sun back to the island. Ben (and Widmore for some reason) want everyone back on the island, so if Locke were alive to sabatoge that, it would be a problem. Second, if my memory is right, Ben killed him right after he told him about Mrs. Hawking. I think there must also be a reason there as well.
My question is this. Did Ben know that Locke had to die? I dont remember Ben ever being told that, so Ben would have viewed the suicide as un-necessary until he found out that there was no way Locke would do what he had to do.
I didn’t really see the Walt scene as being that unimportant or trivial - what I saw that as indicating, particularly with Ben doing his best impersonation of a creepy child molester, was that they need to bring back EVERYBODY who left The Island during the show, including Walt, and that he’ll show up later on. So partially a teaser to entice fans and partially a plot foreshadowing.
That’s an interesting perspective. I was focused on something about the plan being screwed up based on the expectation that Jin would be dead (because of calculations), and Ben improvising some more.
As for how Locke’s suicide would actually unite a bunch of people who hate him largely for being so obsessive, that seems like a greater stretch to me. At least now that they’ve introduced the time travel thing they have an explanation for why they have determined these things - because they already know that these events have happened. So they naturally had to assume that Locke’s death was what brought people together - because ultimately they did come back, even if they might have done it otherwise. But then in that case, Ben would be deviating from plan in trying to spare Locke the death.
So why did Walt not have to come back? They’re going to have to explain why these people have to be back anyhow.
Menzo
4314
I have a feeling Ben knew Locke had to die, but it couldn’t be because of suicide.
I think there’s a heaven/hell (or good/evil) theme playing here, and perhaps the side that Locke needs to be on can’t be entered by suicide.
It could also be because perhaps Ben murdered Christian and he wanted to keep it identical to get back to the island.
I don’t buy that Ben didn’t know Jin was alive. If he genuinely didn’t, he sure wouldn’t have acted so incredulous at finding out. Everything from his entering the room to choking Locke with the cord was an act to find out about Mrs. Hawking and get Jin’s ring as proof to get Sun back on the island.
You are correct, it was the Hawking revelation that changed Ben’s course from helping Locke to basically replacing Locke. The only way for Locke to have known about Hawking was for Widmore to have told him, and the way he talked about it made it sound as if Hawking and Widmore were collaborating. That would have made Ben realize that his supposed ally, Hawking, was really working with the other side. At that point it’s not a stretch for him to realize that if Locke succeeds, there’s no need for Ben, thus he killed Locke and took his place in the overall plan to return people to the island.
Too bad about Mysterious Black Dude. I guess he needed to go so he could start working on Fringe over on Fox. =)
Except that Christian told him before he left the island.
Wait, where did we get the impression that Hawking is with Widmore?
Though I found it pretty strange that with all of Widmore’s resources off-island, he doesn’t have total control of The Lamp Post.
One burning question finally got answered for me last night. I was under the impression that in the last couple of episodes prior to last nights, we were seeing the left-behinds in “real time” and the O6 in a three-year flash forward (or vice-versa). But last night’s ep revealed that the left-behinds have spent four days in the same time as the O6 have spent three years.
I have a feeling that one reason they had to make it three years for the O6 is to help facilitate bringing Walt back, who’s now 6’ 4" and 42 years old.
Also, they get to play up the Kate/Sawyer/Jack triangle from a fresh angle, now that Jack and Kate have been through 3 years of stuff together and Sawyer feels like it’s only been a week.
