Lost

[mystery]

How would this tie together?

The Illuminati, of course.

[Andrew_Mayer]

The Illuminati, of course.

Bavarian or Gnomes of Zurich?

[Khoram]

Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

[Gremlinclr]

Good point if true, but you’re making a couple of assumptions - 1) that the Others took down all the Dharma signage in every building when they took over the Dharma compound after the purge, and 2) that the place has been vacant for 20 years.

IMO we’re just seeing the impact of the previous RPG/gun battle there plus 3 years of being non-maintained since, not 20 years of vacancy. What is potentially important from all of the recent stuff though is that Little Ben met Sayid in the past, and probably becomes aware of Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet (perhaps they’ll throw in something that references his creepy “You’re mine” stuff from a past season) and the rest. I’m guessing that these revelations set him up to expect the plane crash in the future and also tie into the whole purge thing somehow (knowing he helps commit the purge becomes the reason for committing it, or some kind of time loopy shit like that).

Shun the nonbelievers. SHUUUUNNNNNNN!

Go back and rewatch that scene, it’s obvious the Others never lived there. When I’m proven right this season I’ll expect some mad props yo.

[rhinohelix]

Shun the nonbelievers. SHUUUUNNNNNNN!

Go back and rewatch that scene, it’s obvious the Others never lived there. When I’m proven right this season I’ll expect some mad props yo.

Except for all the scenes we have already seen there, including the Others lead by Ben operating the sub from the same dock, etc. you might be right. So if you can remove seasons two and three, there’s hope yet!

[WhollySchmidt]

Except for all the scenes we have already seen there, including the Others lead by Ben operating the sub from the same dock, etc. you might be right. So if you can remove seasons two and three, there’s hope yet!

I think his argument is that the timeline has changed, so what we saw earlier in the series has now been changed. Which I still think is wrong, but the fact that we’ve seen the Others there before this season doesn’t refute his point.

[Andrew_Mayer]

The only timeline change we’re going to see is Desmond retroactively saving Penny now that Ben has murdered her.

[zengonzo]

I’m hoping this show doesn’t submit to the changeable past concept. That kills any storyline.

[RyanMichael]

I’m hoping this show doesn’t submit to the changeable past concept. That kills any storyline.

I’m hoping this show doesn’t submit to the fixed time loop concept. Causality - U R doin it wrong!

[zengonzo]

Yeah, there’s no way that time travel can make sense in the world as we know it. But I’m speaking strictly with regards to the narrative.

Changeable past makes events so much more insignificant, since any event can be overwritten at any point. No actions have any permanence. Things that we knew to exist can suddenly never have existed.

Apart from that, a fixed time loop doesn’t make causality any less true than simply looking back at the past, or foreshadowing.

[Kevin_Grey]

Changeable past makes events so much more insignificant, since any event can be overwritten at any point. No actions have any permanence. Things that we knew to exist can suddenly never have existed.

If Lost does it, I imagine it won’t be easy replicated- ie it can only be done by someone like Desmond or Farraday and it will likely have unintended consequences. Like perhaps Farraday changes the past to save Charlotte, in the process causing The Incident, killing a bunch of people, etc.

[Khoram]

But then has he really changed anything, since the Incident already happened in the timeline we know?

This stuff makes my head hurt.

[Brian_Seiler]

Well, the season finale is titled The Incident, so I’m guessing that they’re not going to change that happening in the past. I would guess that if they’re going to do any changeable time stuff it will happen in the last season and would relate directly to this world-saving thing that they have to be on The Island for.

[zengonzo]

But then has he really changed anything, since the Incident already happened in the timeline we know?

If anyone is prevented from having died, then it didn’t really happen and it might as well have been a dream or a simulation or whatever. It means that experiences can’t be counted on, and memories are all potentially false. No actions have any weight, because they are all mutable at any time.

I know it is not any more realistic to say that a compass can fall into a time loop supernaturally, but at least the narrative remains internally consistent even if it doesn’t have any justification.

I’m happier with characters coming back as ghosts/echoes in time/Jesus.

But mutable past means multiple futures which means that no timeline can be counted on as the actual development of events. (This is a personal preference I’m talking about, by the way, not trying to enforce any rules of fiction.)

[Kevin_Grey]

But mutable past means multiple futures which means that no timeline can be counted on as the actual development of events. (This is a personal preference I’m talking about, by the way, not trying to enforce any rules of fiction.)

Lost seems to operate under a slightly mutable timeline in the sense that individual events may be altered but the timeline will constantly act to correct it. Which was what was happening with Charlie in S3- he was fated to die and could only avoid it for so long. So perhaps Farraday manages to save Charlotte somehow (or Desmond saves Penny, or some other change happens) only to have that individual die a few days/weeks later.

[zengonzo]

I got the impression that Charlie was being saved from death by a form of prescience from Desmond.

While that can be argued to be a method of perceiving a mutable future, it still preserves a single timeline. There are many ways Desmond could perceive Charlie’s potential for death even while preventing it within the same timeline. As he was always there to prevent it, his time-slipping consciousness was aware of the event. Which is similar to the compass, its origins are inexplicable, but it remains consistently within one timeline.

Any perception that time eventually corrects itself is merely the perception of people who know what had happened but still attempt to change the future with that knowledge.

I suspect I’m beginning to sound like a pedantic maniac … But so far I’ve been happy with how they have handled the matter.

[Kevin_Grey]

I got the impression that Charlie was being saved from death by a form of prescience from Desmond.

While that can be argued to be a method of perceiving a mutable future, it still preserves a single timeline. There are many ways Desmond could perceive Charlie’s potential for death even while preventing it within the same timeline. As he was always there to prevent it, his time-slipping consciousness was aware of the event. Which is similar to the compass, its origins are inexplicable, but it remains consistently within one timeline.

I’d also add the example of Michael’s inability to die for the longest time until the Timeline deemed it necessary. It’s still a single timeline though but it begins to make the timeline almost like a character in and of itself that is taking an active role in the proceedings. So if it can be defeated it would probably take someone with a special ability (again Desmond or perhaps Farraday).

I’m not worried precisely because I trust the writers not to use it as a crutch to bring back a character they regretted killing off or going back and retconning some plot they want to jettison. If it happens it will be quite unique and of great significance.

[zengonzo]

… Well, shit.

[madkevin]

Once again, Lost just blew my mind. I was seriously not expecting that.

[Lloyd_Heilbrunn]

Interrogation drug hallucination??