Lost

[Sidd_Budd]

I liked that this episode sort of wrapped up some story lines and then set up some bizarre new ones. What is the deal with the new people on the beach?

My theory is that they’ve been possessed/turned by the same forces that affected Rousseau’s colleagues.

Also, good call from the folks who speculated about Anubis’ image in conjunction with the statue & temple.

[rajah_sulayman]

I watched tonight’s episode and then South Park immediately after.

I think I broke my brain.

[zengonzo]

Seconded. I loved Ben describing to Sun how Locke walking around the island scares the crap out of him.

Except that we’re, as the audience, quite used to dead people up and walking about the island … So does that just mean Ben has never witnessed this phenomenon, and never discussed it with anyone? That seems strange to me. But my memory isn’t strong enough to contain the whole series, so I dunno’.

My theory is that they’ve been possessed/turned by the same forces that affected Rousseau’s colleagues.

Figured it was most likely another attempt on Widmore’s part to return to the island …

[theborbes]

My theory is that they’ve been possessed/turned by the same forces that affected Rousseau’s colleagues.

But that would imply that they had discovered/been dragged into the temple that locke/ben were exploring…

[Funkman]

Ok, another question: We see Ben’s house, the one he moved into after wiping out the Dharma people. It has a secret door that leads into a secret tunnel that comes down to a little drain that he uses to summon the monster. However, he didn’t build that house, the Dharma people did. So why did they build a house over that hole in the ground that supposedly summons the monster while also having a security system designed to keep that monster out of their camp?

[Mark_Crump]

Ok, another question: We see Ben’s house, the one he moved into after wiping out the Dharma people. It has a secret door that leads into a secret tunnel that comes down to a little drain that he uses to summon the monster. However, he didn’t build that house, the Dharma people did. So why did they build a house over that hole in the ground that supposedly summons the monster while also having a security system designed to keep that monster out of their camp?

I thought the security system was for the Others?

[Brian_Seiler]

Ok, another question: We see Ben’s house, the one he moved into after wiping out the Dharma people. It has a secret door that leads into a secret tunnel that comes down to a little drain that he uses to summon the monster. However, he didn’t build that house, the Dharma people did. So why did they build a house over that hole in the ground that supposedly summons the monster while also having a security system designed to keep that monster out of their camp?

I suspect that will be answered at some point in an explicit fashion by the show. My best guess is that there’s a network of caves around The Island and that house just happened to be on top of the Mystical Drain of Listening and the multiple secret doors thing was built after the house was initially constructed.

[zengonzo]

I suspect that will be answered at some point in an explicit fashion by the show. My best guess is that there’s a network of caves around The Island and that house just happened to be on top of the Mystical Drain of Listening and the multiple secret doors thing was built after the house was initially constructed.

I’d forgotten that point. It was really strange. It wasn’t like it was just some hole that could have been covered up, there was a weather-worn stone door with runic carvings that was apparently in the side of a larger rock outcropping.

Someone in Dharma decided to build a house that butted right up against it and then Ben just knocked down a wall?

[Chuck]

Great episode. And another new mystery: What’s in that crate?

[ColonelT]

Loved the episode. The hairpieces, not so much.

[zengonzo]

Great episode. And another new mystery: What’s in that crate?

MORE POLAR BEARS

[DT1]

Except that we’re, as the audience, quite used to dead people up and walking about the island … So does that just mean Ben has never witnessed this phenomenon, and never discussed it with anyone? That seems strange to me. But my memory isn’t strong enough to contain the whole series, so I dunno’.

To me, the point was that Ben was lying about the fact that “dead is dead” when he was talking to Sun. He said to Locke at the beginning that he is so amazed to see him because believing that someone can come back from the dead is different than actually seeing it happen.

[Brian_Seiler]

Except that we’re, as the audience, quite used to dead people up and walking about the island … So does that just mean Ben has never witnessed this phenomenon, and never discussed it with anyone? That seems strange to me. But my memory isn’t strong enough to contain the whole series, so I dunno’.

We are? Ben has seen his mother on The Island (last season), but those have usually been visions or hallucinations. John will see Walt and Walt will tell him something, for example, but the only actually dead actual person we’ve actually seen actually interacting with the actual environment is Christian Shepard, who appears to be a legitimate ambulatory dead guy. We know that the smoke monster can take the form of dead people (convincingly confirmed as far as I am concerned by last night’s episode), but it’s not actually those people. Yemi, for instance, was still dead in the cockpit of the plane when Eko was having his conversations with the guy, presumably because vision-Yemi was, in fact, the smoke monster.

So I can buy that this would be legitimately surprising to Ben. Locke is the first dead guy we’ve seen interacting with people who know that he’s dead with other people in the room to confirm his existence.

Also, is anybody else glad to see Locke back to knowing everything? I liked him so much better that first season when he was the guy who knew how everything worked. The writers really need to keep him this way.

[DT1]

Yemi, for instance, was still dead in the cockpit of the plane when Eko was having his conversations with the guy, presumably because vision-Yemi was, in fact, the smoke monster.

The writers have confirmed that Yemi’s incarnation when he talked to Eko was the smoke monster.

[zengonzo]

To me, the point was that Ben was lying about the fact that “dead is dead” when he was talking to Sun.

So it might make sense to lie to Locke, in spite of the fact that Locke clearly doesn’t give a shit - why lie to Sun?

<instances of dead people variously incarnated>

What would convince Ben that this is so different from any of the other potential tricks that it could be? He has no way of knowing what has derived Locke’s incarnation, any more than any of the other ghosts/facsimiles/hallucinations.

[DT1]

So it might make sense to lie to Locke, in spite of the fact that Locke clearly doesn’t give a shit - why lie to Sun?

Well Sun started jumping Ben’s shit about knowing that Locke would be reincarnated when he was brought back to the island and Ben began to immediately backpedal. I assumed it was because Ben wanted to not make it so obvious to Sun that he manipulated her back on to the island.

[Brian_Seiler]

What would convince Ben that this is so different from any of the other potential tricks that it could be? He has no way of knowing what has derived Locke’s incarnation, any more than any of the other ghosts/facsimiles/hallucinations.

Because other people people have interacted with Locke at the same time as him and he’s seen Locke do things in the physical environment. Given those facts, either Locke is back to life or the smoke monster is playing an elaborate joke on him. Both are possible, but given that he expected Locke to return to life, it makes sense for Ben to believe that something special happened this time instead of The Island trying to pants him in the most complicated possible manner.

Most of the ghosts in past episodes have only interacted with one character at a time. Remember that we didn’t know that Christian was a physical thing until that Season 4 mobisode where he talked to Vincent. The group of dead or absent people who have been witnessed by more than one individual is actually quite small. We’ve got Christian, and nobody who knows he’s supposed to be dead has actually talked to him yet, John, and possibly that hallucination of Walt around the time Boone’s sister whose name I am blanking on got shot.

[zengonzo]

I’d always thought of the smoke monster as a taint or corruption, that whatever was under the temple was leaking out bad juju … I guess we’ve yet to see where that is going - but it seems to be tied to the path of the righteous, assuming that Locke is.

I’m still a bit confused by Ben. I’ve idealized him as a misanthropic hero, who uses his Machiavellian wiles to achieve noble results. Clearly the backstory has asserted that perspective, but he seems to keep getting stuck in asshole mode in the present, towards whatever motivation I still can’t understand.

Unless the backstory was really meant to impress that he has an unusual obsession with children that fucks up his schemes.

[DT1]

Well, in this episode we see him usurping Charles Widmore as the leader of the Others. We also see him trying to do anything to prevent Locke from taking his place (including scheming to get him killed.)

After the smoke monster judges him, Alex (who I assume is the smoke monster manifested) tells him he must accept Locke as the leader.

[zengonzo]

Both are possible, but given that he expected Locke to return to life, it makes sense for Ben to believe that something special happened this time instead of The Island trying to pants him in the most complicated possible manner.

I appreciate that they want to demonstrate that Ben observes Locke’s return as Actually Something Special - but maybe they could have dialed back the wonder a little, made it seem more natural for someone who is normally unflappable, and lived a life on an island on which there are no true rules, while still maintaining that This is Important, This Means Something.

Whatever the spectral form - ‘dead is’ clearly not ‘dead’.