4961

He’s really Locke. Only he’s, how should I put this, Locke-plus. Locke plus what? That’s the question.

4962

Yes to your first question. As far as I’m aware, we don’t know anything about him, other than that from the context of the episode, he’s manipulating at least some things at a high level like Jacob. I don’t have any trouble believing he knew about it and had Richard meet wounded Locke at the plane so that Locke would continue on the course to end up dead so this guy could impersonate him “now”.

4963

Nah, I think he’s definitely supposed to be the guy from the opening scene.

4964

I agree. Jacob’s comment about the other guy finding a loophole at the end lends some weight to that theory.

The only theory I’ve got right now is that the other guy (“Evil Locke” for lack of a real name) is actually the smoke monster. We’ve seen that the smoke monster can take on various forms, especially of dead people.

Since the implication is that Evil Locke went through a lot of trouble to kill Jacob, some of Locke’s motivations this season make sense. Evil Locke insisted that Ben face his judgment by the smoke monster not for justice, but so that he could scare Ben into doing what Evil Locke says.

For whatever reason, Evil Locke can’t kill Jacob by himself, so he has to convince others to do it for him. He had to somehow get Locke off the island, but brought back dead so that he could resurrect/impersonate/posess Locke’s body, and use that to trick someone into killing Jacob.

Lots of brand new unanswered questions:

  • Who are Jacob and the other guy? Why the hate? Why can’t they kill each other? Are they some sort of Egyptian gods? Is one of them necessarily good/evil?

  • What’s up with Jacob’s cabin? Was that really his cabin if he actually lived in the statue? And what’s up with the ash around it? Was something imprisoned in there? Why did the new folks torch it?

Also, the cliffhanger they chose to end it with was evil.

4965

Jacob has been referenced since season 3. Yeah, yeah, I know you’re looking for some scene where he is prancing around. Your point was they didn’t have any plan for the show, but they introduced him a long time ago.

Enlighten me.

What other character met people at certain times and places on the island. Christian. Whose body was in a box on flight 815?

Whose body was in a box on this flight?

Certainly they want us to think Locke is the guy from the beginning in some fashion. This is Lost though so who the hell knows. I do know that asking “And if “Locke” really isn’t Locke, how did he know to meet wounded Locke at the plane?” is a pretty good reason to think Locke isn’t Locke.

Good candidate, indeed.

And when Ben met up with his daughter with Locke in tow? Who/what showed up while Locke was off screen?

4966

No, I’d say focusing a whole season containing something like 22 hour-long episodes on a computer and not knowing what it is is pretty shitty writing. This is putting aside the general shittiness of their writing underneath the MYSTERY with it’s characters, plot and cohesion.

I’m convinced the two doofuses who run the show have the best jobs in the world. Writing four long-ass seasons of television full of random bullshit and deus ex machinas under the guise of !MYSTERY! and only bothering to explain any of it in its fifth season (using time travel, no less!) must be awesome, in an extremely pretentious and hacky way.

4967

I think I linked in a picture of the Egyptian goddess of fertility a couple pages back - did the look at the statue we got this ep fit with that, or was it something else? Mouth looked kind of crocodilian.

So after all this time thinking the show was about Others vs Losties, then Others vs Dharma, then Ben vs Widmore, now it appears to be … Jacob vs Unknown Evil Guy? Jacob was wearing a white shirt in the opening, and the other guy was wearing a black shirt. Like the black and white backgammon pieces found with Adam and Eve and Locke’s eyes in Claire’s dream.

So Jacob has spent all this time weaving together the thread of the plot with the Losties, influencing their lives full of interconnections, woven together like his tapestry, meticulously for years. And the Evil Dude has likewise spent this whole time trying to figure out how to get someone else to kill Jacob, to unravel the order of his woven tapestry? Or something. ?

I should just go to bed. Mostly I’m pissed because I liked Juliet and I guess she’s dead now, what with the nuke and the V remake pilot and all.

4968

Introducing him means nothing. It’s not unheard of for a show like this to introduce a character early on and leave it relatively vague and nebulous so that they can use it later on if they need an alibi for something.

They could’ve easily used the innocuous Jacob scenes (him with Sawyer, Kate, or Jack) at any point in the seasons and it would’ve had more of an impact when the AHA moment finally came, but they didn’t. I honestly believe they only have it somewhat mapped out in their heads, and a lot of it they’re figuring out on the fly.

Which is not a bad thing. I don’t care if they came up with it last week or last year – so long as I enjoy the story who cares when they came up with it?

4969

This thread is really confusing me. I can’t tell if people are being vague to keep from spoiling things from people who haven’t watched the finale yet or if they’re vague to let people figure it out for themselves. I don’t do vague, so after seven or eight empty spaces will be what I think about the Locke thing. The rest of the episode was decent, nothing as amazing as some of the other season finales, but the Locke thing is pretty crazy. Oh and my girlfriend thinks I’m a terrible person now because I laughed maniacally for a good five minutes after the white screen. Ok enough rambling, my Locke theory.

Widmore has to be Locke2.0. As soon as Jacob said “You found your loophole” I knew it was Widmore since that what he’s been doing for 30 years, trying to find a loophole to get back to the island. As far as how he actually did it I really can’t say, obviously that will be on of the biggest things to be answered in the final season. I’m not really sure why people are confused by that, seemed pretty clear to me.

4970

It’s probably not Widmore, since we’ve seen what he looks like during most of the stages of his life. And he’s 20ish in the 60s, so he can’t have been the old guy talking to Jacob at the beginning when finding a loophole is first mentioned, since the ship in the background is probably (maybe) the Black Rock.

I also laughed at the white screen. They’re such bastards. I have to wait more than half a year to find out what happened?

4971

Ok, so needing to find a loophole means that the guy in black can’t actually physically kill Jacob. For some reason he has to find someone else to kill him.

Could it be that the whole series has been an elaborate game of chess between those two characters, played out over 30+ years, which ended when fakeLocke said checkmate and had Ben kill Jacob?

Are these guys spirits? God and the Devil? Yin and Yang? Gods toying with humanity?

4972

I still think it’s Widmore, at least his consciousness. When he got on the sub to leave the island he specifically said he would find a loophole to get back. He spent the rest of his life, his vast wealth, and the combined skills of Eloise and Daniel to find that. Somehow with Locke he found it.

4973

Nice.

4974

From the statue I’d guess maybe one of the two guys from the opening shot is supposed to be Set (or Seth) but that’s just a guess.

4975

I suspect that Locke couldn’t kill Jacob for the same reason that Christian couldn’t help Locke when Locke’s leg was broken - because he’s dead and not corporeal (ghost, spirit, what have you).

As to everyone else - they just got blown back to the future (“They’re coming”). I rather doubt that they all end up in LAX - there going to be on the island. Faraday’s plan was simply part of what happened - he didn’t change anything, he just completed it.

4976

He kicked Jacob into the fire. Do you guys need to have a printed out script to follow what happens or what?

4977

Lost writers are not always internally consistent, for one. Further, the appearance of him kicking him in can be just that: appearance. All Jacob had to do was roll in on his own - illusion clearly happens on the island. And was there really a need to sneer and behave like an ass?

4978

Maybe Jacob is one of those lizards that can squirt blood!

And yes.

4979

At least you recognize yourself for what you are.
;-)

4980

And I’m somewhat convinced that’s what he intended to have happen.