Wader
5261
While I think that theory is cool, I dont think Jacob ever met Juliet. I just double checked and Lostpedia doesnt list them meeting at all…
An annoying sound and some funny colored dirt.
Oh, you mean to The Island. I’m pretty sure that the implication from the Esau dialog bits in the premier is that Jacob was opposing whatever it was that Esau most wanted, which turned out to be to “go home”, so the assumption they seem to be leading us toward is that Jacob was keeping Esau on The Island.
That said, I think I’m still rooting for Esau. Captain Jacobman has never, ever played a good character. I don’t know if I can put that behind me.
I’m not sure I buy that Blackie was Daniel in 1977. For one thing, it looks like Blackie can only take the form of dead people, and Daniel wasn’t dead. Second, I think Daniel convinced himself that he could change the past because he needed to try to save the red-head he was in love with.
Other than that, I think you might be on to something.
DrCrypt
5264
Sure he was… but no one ever said Anti-Jacob couldn’t kill people on the island. The Anti-Jacob just can’t kill Jacob or leave the island. He’s even said it.
DrCrypt
5265
Shit. You’re right. Okay, well, whatever. :)
DrCrypt
5266
Well, we don’t know for sure that he didn’t die… his disappearance sure was mysterious, and we might not have the whole truth. But you’re right: it might have simply been simpering love for an ugly ginger that made him change his tune. Blackie doesn’t really need to have set up the 1977 event for the aftermath of his release playing out in the alternate 2004 timeline.
A theory: Jacob & Blackie are old gods/deities on opposite sides of the idea of humanity as inherently good or evil.
In the talk at the end of Season 5, Jacob and Blackie have that discussion about humans coming and lying, cheating, destroying each other, etc. My take on that is Jacob = Good and Blackie = Evil. So standard, I know, but the stakes seem to be … humanity’s souls perhaps.
Jacob goes out and pushes here and there, but basically gives everyone a choice. This is especially clear with Ben (where Ben is basically Bible’s Job). He doesn’t apologize, he doesn’t try to explain, he just tells Ben he has his own personal choice to make.
Whenever the humans fail these choices Evil Blackie feels vindicated as to his ideas that humans are basically evil, but Jacob seems to have hope, saying it is all “progress” towards humanity’s eventual salvation.
A very non-science-y explanation that isn’t very satisfying for me, but I can’t help but see the threads.
We’re requiring a lot of faith in things we can’t know at the moment, but what prevented anti-J from killing Locke and taking his form when Locke first crewed up with the Others?
His motivations don’t require Locke to leave the island to get the rest of the gang and bring them back home.
Really, most of what occurs is an extremely roundabout way to achieve the apparently simple objective: blow up Swan site.
If that all is the case, then Jacob seems like a pretty shitty prison warden, giving mere mortals the opportunity to unleash the horror simply because they might’ve had a lousy childhood.
Jacob and Esau as gods is probably a little bit too easy for the show - I’m guessing they’ll at least put some sort of science makeup on it. It would also mean that we’re missing some pretty important statues - you’d figure that the Egyptians would put statues of Ra or Horus or that crocodile guy who actually had legs (as opposed to Apep) on the island where their gods live.
The parallel between Sawyer/Jack and Jacob/Esau was pretty clear last night as well. I suspect that they’re going to do something with that over the course of the season.
This avenue is a much easier explain-away for the mostly backseat approach these forces seem to take. Bringing up The Game means we can play and hold the Mysterious Ways hand whenever we like.
I’m a bit disappointed, though, that we might not get quite as much of the secret faction strife that seemed to be a much stronger part of the early story.
DrCrypt
5271
zenzongo, you’re right: this is a lot of supposition, because we just don’t know yet. There’s fifteen episodes to tie all the threads together. Yes, it’s a round-about plan. My guess, though, is that Blackie needed the island to move at the end of the fourth season for a lot of his actions in the fifth season to become possible. I mean, we still don’t know why that wheel was even there, or what it’s intended purpose is.
Unlocke mentioned how hard it was to get in a position to have Jacob killed. There has to be more to that than “I just need to convince someone else to do it.”
I understand that access to Jacob isn’t like going to the corner store, but what exactly was so hard and was the loophole that simple?
Jazar
5273
We definitely need a straight name for this Unlocke, Blackey, Esau, MiB, Anti-Jacob, Facob, Smokey, Sir Smokes-a-lot, etc guy.
That’d be one - if we can get to Widmore being directly manipulated by the anti-J, we’ve got a nice conspiracy going. There’ll still be plenty of loose ends, but, meh. I’m more ready for a wrap than I am for explanation at this point.
At some point, though, it had seemed to be a possibility that Widmore might simply have been playing the role of a villain, rather than genuinely intending malice.
This is where I think I’m really disassociated with the show … All of the people who were halfway in on the secrets - what were their motivations in advancing the action? What did they think they were doing, if it all turns out to explicitly be a Jacob/Esau conflict?
I’m for UnLocke, but I’d forgotten about that one since last season.
This. Seriously. If the loophole was just that he needed someone else to kill Jacob, then it sure took Unlocke a long time to figure it out and put it into motion. He also apparently chose to do this in the most roundabout manner possible.
DrCrypt
5277
I’m voting for Blackey, after my huge post above: it’s just too hard to keep Jacob and Anti-Jacob straight. I have the same issue with UnLocke: we need distinct names. Blackey’s pretty simple, and describes all of his various incarnations.
Seth. I.e., Set, Egyptian God of Storms, Darkness and Chaos. There are parallels to the story of Jacob and Esau in the conflict between Set and Horus. (Think Eye of Horus, in Jacob’s tapestry and the constant closeups of openning eyes throughout the show’s history.)
I don’t think the conflict is supposed to be literally interperated as any one of these myths but I think the parallels are intentional and that we are maybe supposed to think these myths all derived from a common source.
That said, unless his name is actually revealed to be Seth (as I think it might), I personally like Unlocke (because it’s clever and seems to be getting the most usage here) or Flocke (because it’s funny).
mystery
5279
I don’t this it’s that he needed just anyone else, he needed someone that had been revived in the Fountain of Youth (or whatever it’s called), and therefore someone that had “special” access to Jacob. Some joe off the street isn’t going to cut it, as Jacob only lets his faithful through the door.
Okay, but why not just send in someone/anyone inside the foot to kill Jacob while Unlocke stayed outside? Ben wasn’t faithful to Jacob by the time he killed him and as far as we know has never been revived. With the way alliances change on this show, I don’t think it would be stretch to somehow get Richard or even the real Locke to kill Jacob after a few years of conspiring and lying. It’s certainly an easier plan than “get Locke killed, then assume his form to trick Ben into killing him while I get him access to Jacob via my Lock mask.”
