Mainstream Media

And that would somehow make Trump’s base dislike the plan? Most would simply say “good”. The GOP gets everything they want out of that plan. I think it would be harder for the GOP to defend ending CHIP than ending DACA.

That’s all well and good but Trump’s base is too small for that to matter. The people that matter in elections are in between the two extremes.

My opinion is that the Senate Democrats are playing with fire, and doing it needlessly. The history of shutdowns is that one side gets blamed, and the blame substantially hurts them. The potential upside to Democrats is incremental - the “not-Democrat-base + not-GOP-base” already blame the GOP for a lot. The risk is huge - they risk the entire “blue wave of 2018”.

So do you think Trump or the GOP has done anything in the past year to attract that group in the middle? Have any of their policies been designed to appease that group?

I actually agree with you here.

The counter-argument, however, is that the GOP being roundly blamed for the October '13 shutdown apparently meant absolutely fuck-all to the results of the 2014 midterms.

The same rules don’t seem to apply to each party. It’s teeth-grindingly frustrating.

Apparently Schumer is at the White House. The Dems have an opportunity to come out as the party willing to work for the people. Or they could look like the party that caved. It will be interesting to see how it all spins.

I can’t agree with a government shutdown. I called it out as irresponsible when the Republicans did it and I’ll do the same here.

I know the Democrats have little to no leverage and that’s why it’s tempting to try to use it, but the federal government needs to be funded and functional (the latter a rather relative term, these days). Holding the government hostage, even for something as well-intentioned as DACA, is irresponsible.

Why is it always the Democrats who have to bend?

Someone’s gotta be the adult. And no, I don’t like it. This whole thing has me grinding my teeth, but government shutdowns can’t be the answer when a party can’t get it’s way… even on important things like this

Thus is has been since time immemorial. Democrats get to be the Grown up in the Room, and GOP gets to be the angry toddlers. Then the angry toddlers blame the Grownups for everything, and the electorate buys into it.

It’s a time-honored, inviolable, ineffable system. As eternal and unchanging as the movements of the spheres for the past few billion years. Except that the universe is only 6000 years old, of course.

And these days you can’t even spank the toddlers.

Wait I thought this wasn’t the Woody Allen thread…?

…I’ll see myself out.

… That doesn’t follow as a matter of logic. Dems don’t control anything, the GOP controls everything, therefore if a shutdown happens it’s due to GOP infighting not anything the Dems did or did not do.

“But the public is stupid, they won’t understand that!” Well, maybe. But it turns out they’re not that stupid. A new ABC/Washington Post poll out today shows that if a shut down happens, the public will blame Republicans more than Democrats. And not just by a little - by 20 points. That helps the blue wave, it doesn’t hurt it.

People have noticed the GOP are fuckups. The worst thing the Dems could do at this point is to try and help the incompetent GOP clean up the messes the Republicans created. Much better to say: kick the bums out.

In fairness, any shutdown would likely be very short lived. Probably resolved by Monday.

Ultimately, it fits with Trump being a chaotic fool incapable of governing, so it will be hard to spin the story in a way that makes him and the GOP look good.

“Chaotic Retarded” is not an alignment I want to ever play.

I don’t trust this poll at all. They’re apparently not polling the millions of Trump supporters who blame Democrats for everything… even stuff they just made up.

On the contrary, I think the shutdown will last at least long enough for McConnel to have to eliminate the filibuster for the good of the country.

If that were to happen, then he wouldn’t even have 50 votes. He’s got 50 now, with some Democrats. He’d lose them if he went nuclear.

Even without the filibuster, he wouldn’t be able to pass it.

I wish you could convince 75% role player randos in the world of this.