Mainstream Media

[Menzo]

@scottagibson

Do we think he would walk?

We all know the answer to that question.

[Timex]

@scottagibson

Personally, I’m wondering what the situation would be if the black homeless man Neely had choked the white ex-marine to death, and then said he felt threatened by him. Do we think he would walk?

If the Marine was threatening everyone on the subway? Maybe.

That’s the thing that folks keep glossing over… Neely was not randomly targeted. He instigated the situation.

[Menzo]

@Timex

That’s the thing that folks keep glossing over

Nobody is glossing over that. There are just some people who think there is no combination of words that he could have said that justified the death penalty.

[scottagibson]

…and some people who remember George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse, both of whom took actual weapons and went looking to instigate a fight.

[Timex]

@Menzo

Nobody is glossing over that. There are just some people who think there is no combination of words that he could have said that justified the death penalty.

If we see from footage that all he was doing was yelling at no one, then that might be the case.

But if he was acting as though he were about to assault someone? Then, as I said, it becomes murkier. I want to see what happened before I pass judgement on the guy.

[Telefrog]

@scottagibson

George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse

Heroes and patriots both to some folks.

[Timex]

@scottagibson

…and some people who remember George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse, both of whom took actual weapons and went looking to instigate a fight.

Yeah, but my position on those guys is that they were both douchebags, who were in the wrong.

[scottagibson]

@Timex

Yeah, but my position on those guys is that they were both douchebags, who were in the wrong.

Were they guilty?

[Timex]

@scottagibson

Were they guilty?

To me? Yeah.

Or are we talking about what a jury might find? For that I don’t know in this case.

But I don’t think the guy here falls into that category. As far as we know, he was just a random dude riding the subway. He didn’t go into it seeking a fight, like Rittenhouse or Zimmerman. Neely is the guy who went onto that subway looking to start shit.

Now, if it turns out that this Marine dude actually DID go onto the subway looking for a fight, in some kind of Charles Bronson “Death Wish” scenario, then that would put him in the company of folks like Rittenhouse.

[DoubleG]

But like those other cases this was a situation where no violence was happening until this guy inserted himself. No attempt at de-escalation, he just walked up behind the guy and used deadly force.

[scottagibson]

The Governor rethinks her response.

Chris Hayes

[AK_Icebear]

@anonymgeist

But I don’t think just threatening justifies the use of deadly force.

I believe the law of quite a few states differs with your take on this.

[DoubleG]

@AK_Icebear

@anonymgeist

But I don’t think just threatening justifies the use of deadly force.

I believe the law of quite a few states differs with your take on this.

The point still stands, right? Florida’s stand your ground laws just allowed a guy to shoot a 5 year old because her father threw a water bottle at the shooter. Doesn’t make that law morally correct.

[scottagibson]

@AK_Icebear

I believe the law of quite a few states differs with your take on this.

Which states authorize deadly force in response to verbal threats, absent any physical element? I don’t say there are none, because of course red states have some crazy laws.

[Timex]

@DoubleG

But like those other cases this was a situation where no violence was happening until this guy inserted himself. No attempt at de-escalation, he just walked up behind the guy and used deadly force.

This is why I think we need to see what happened prior to his being restrained, because there are definitely situations which I think would morally justify restraining someone, prior to them actually committing violent acts and harming others. I do not think that you are legally or morally required to let criminals harm people before stepping in.

But it depends on the situation, and I think we need to see what happened.

[Soapyfrog]

@Timex

But if he was acting as though he were about to assault someone?

I love that you think this is a justification to kill a man. And slowly by strangulation while other people hold him down for you.

Love it.

edit: what I mean is, I don’t love it, I find it horrifying

[Timex]

Soapy, you don’t know what happened prior to Neely being restrained any more than the rest of us, right? Or have you seen some other footage?

[Soapyfrog]

Honestly if Neely has managed to turn the tables on the marine and kill him, it would be self defence.

[Soapyfrog]

@Timex

Soapy, you don’t know what happened prior to Neely being restrained any more than the rest of us, right? Or have you seen some other footage?

By restrained you mean slowly and deliberately killed.

Even if he had punched someone in the face that is an extreme response.

[scottagibson]

@Timex

This is why I think we need to see what happened prior to his being restrained, because there are definitely situations which I think would morally justify restraining someone, prior to them actually committing violent acts and harming others.

This very much assumes a spherical mind-reader, doesn’t it?