Making a Murderer


#61

Blood doesn’t need to go through the glove to smear it onto a surface. Even in a case where the cut is on your hand, you can get blood on the gloves while putting them on, and smear it around while wearing them.


#62

What are you basing your opinion on then? If you must watch the actual events to draw conclusions, how do you know that what’s presented in the series is false, and that what the police say is fact?

And obviously you haven’t seen the show, as it [I]did[/I] go into detail about the police’s explanation of how the key got there, so it actually presented both sides.


#63

Rage. That’s all you need.

As for no prior record of sexual assault, that’s not saying much. At one point in their lives, every rapist in existence has had no prior record of sexual assault.


#64

OK. I can see that.

It still doesn’t explain why the evidence vial was tampered with, the bone evidence being found in multiple sites, the nephew being railroaded into confessing, or the truck being left on the outskirts of the property when Avery has a car crusher on the premises.


#65

Actually the documentary presented that it fell out from behind, spent some time on it. The whole interaction was suspect, 8 days to find it?!! Dectective Keystone having other cops watch him but not educated to keep an eye on them. The whole shake the selves and the key bounces out to plain view but no one sees this till he calls it out? And sigh for needing to point this out…they shouldn’t have been there in the first place!!!

I groaned at the ‘what time did I check in’ shuffle. Wait we didn’t start keeping a log till 230, but I was keeping it the whole time, I just had notes. but I threw them out…Ok fine whatever…

Then keystone cop supreme I got there at 6 pm per his sworn statement, wait the log started at 230? I Got there at 1pm then! One times dark the other time is lunch, lie fall, and the whole management of the site qoes into question. T

The obvious implications is that he snuck on site, evaded the cops to plant the evidence and then checked out and then changed the time to fit the start time of the official log in (which according to the cop in question was always occurring just didn’t have his notes anymore). If not the site was so badly manage that anyone could walk in and plant evidence, either way, keystone cop awards all around guys!

Wearing gloves with blood on them, the guy had an IQ of 70. I suppose that’s possible. but if so then why didn’t they find the gloves with the blood in the house? I mean they burned the body on the lot, hid it there for anyone to find, hid the car in plain site for anyone to find, but they are methodical about cleaning up the blood in the bedroom/ garage DA said both he couldn’t make up his mind but both locations had no blood (so much so that a forensic expert would be challenged considering the conditions) and the gloves with the blood on them, but nothing else? That doesn’t seem suspicious to you?

Again, I’ve heard enough from other sources that they could be guilty if the other facts were true (I actually hope they are- because if not this is epic failure of the legal system to the point of absurdity), but on the other hand, enough hincky stuff happens to make me question anything the cops have to offer (or DA dopey).


#66

And the highly suspicious license plate check phone call from one of the officers before the vehicle is officially found.


#67

Well, in terms of the key thing, I’m basing it upon what was reported in the courtroom according to Krantz. The idea that it was in plain sight and just appeared isn’t what happened, so presenting it as such and then saying that it didn’t make sense for to just appear like that is kind of a strawman.

The obvious implications is that he snuck on site, evaded the cops to plant the evidence and then checked out and then changed the time to fit the start time of the official log in (which according to the cop in question was always occurring just didn’t have his notes anymore). If not the site was so badly manage that anyone could walk in and plant evidence, either way, keystone cop awards all around guys!

But ultimately the idea that all the evidence was planted all comes back to the fact that really crazy evidence planting would have had to take place, including stuff like the victims possessions and remains. While it could be reasonable to think that the cops could plant stuff like Avery’s blood, it just doesn’t seem reasonable at all for the things like the victim’s body and possessions to have been planted where they were found.


#68

THAT was the mic drop moment of the entire series for me.


#69

My favorite part of that is when he was called on it, he looked like a deer caught in headlights. The 'Oh shit", look, when they called him on knowing the year of the car like he was sitting in front of it (also lying that the dispatcher said it). I would have rolled on floor laughing if the situation wasn’t so serious.

They should really use the facts here to make a comedy about inept cops. Maybe Manitowoc County 911, just do a spoof on cops being inept and dimwitted but just used all the flubs in this case, you have your first season right there!!!


#70

Except in the end, Manitowoc County wins anyway.


#71

Its reasonable considering all factors. The cops search the location for 8 days don’t find squat (they had that crazy long search warrant that very atypical) , but know he did it. Find the body and the car. Plant them onsite to be found. Realize later, some goofs were made and not enough physical evidence on site, so set up to plant the key to put physical evidence on site. Now the burn barrel I bet they just missed that. lol. Then when the body was found (that they planted) and the full search for more went active, they found the evidence they would have found if they acted like cops instead of keystone cops…

They had Bradon’s confession, and knew Avery did it, but also knew it was likely to be thrown out by the way it was gotten, heck Brandon probably told the cops where to find the body and car and knew the way they did it would likely get thrown out. So used the time to make it stick, being small town cops though they really REALLY sucked at setting someone up.

That all sounds very likely to me considering how the aspects of what we saw play out and what I learned later as possible other facts. Still, even if true, Avery has to go free. That kind of suckage just can’t pass in the legal system.


#72

Find the body and the car. Plant them onsite to be found.

This is the part that is essentially impossible though. In order for them to have found the car and remains, and had no one know about it, no dispatcher recordings, etc… It’s not really feasible. Or it requires a grand conspiracy of basically everyone involved with the police.

It might be theoretically possible that someone else actually killed her at Avery’s salvage yard, coincidentally, or maybe one of his brothers did it or something.

But the idea of her being killed somewhere else, found, and then moved to Avery’s site? And she just happens to have had a connection with Avery? Doesn’t seem reasonable to me.


#73

Make a great season finale, right? Realize all the scope of their hijinx is epic, and looks like its all going to go sideways and blow up on them but the inertia of the legal system allows them to skate by, by the hair on teeth…


#74

Oh in my mind a few of the cops know he’s guilty ( or think he is). Know he’s stalking her (per the omitted facts) and Brandon tell them the info maybe (where the body & car are) but its not admissible (either because they realized what they did and thought it might be thrown out- or did something worse than we already know to get the info). So its not a huge leap that a few cops could orchestrate getting these few things back into a usable form.

If Avery and Brandon were actually innocent though, then I agree with you though, no way they could find both of those items and plant it (only the real killer could and I refuse to believe it was actually the cops). So the only way it works all of it, is the cops knew who the killer was but mishandled it, and then mishandled it to epic proportions when they tried to correct it/do the frame up.

I suppose I should say Brandon has to be guilty in my scenario, I suppose its remotely possible that Avery could be innocent in my example, and was set up creatively by the douche brother of Brandon (or is it his cousin - in any case he totally gave me a bad vibe- and alarms went off with his proven false and sketchy alibi AND his throwing Avery under the bus with his again false statement about seeing her in his house- when someone else actually said that)


#75

There WAS a dispatcher recording of Colburn asking about the license plate. That part was never explained and the call definitely sounded like he was reading it off the plate on the car. He very well could have found the car, called it in, heard who it was and known she was last at the Avery place and gone from there.


#76

Or why the master criminal – who apparently laundered entire rooms in bleach – left smears of his blood throughout the victim’s car.

As for the location of the key, the house had been searched for 8 days. Stop and think about that for just a second. This is a trailer home. It’s not large. It’s inconceivable to me that the key wouldn’t have been found previously – and that, of course, it would be the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s office, which we’ve already seen is the most competent law enforcement body this side of Mayberry, that finds the key.

I haven’t been part of a police search, but I’ve seen the aftermath of a search of a three bedroom house. The search lasted about 4 hours (they were looking for a firearm). They didn’t find the firearm, but there’s no way they missed much of anything – that place was turned upside down. Multiple that by 16 times for a much smaller location (assuming the LEOs only worked 8 hours/day, which is unlikely). It really strains credulity. I am absolutely certain that piece of furniture had been emptied, flipped around, turned upside down, and meticulously searched long before the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s department showed up (unless the counter contention is that the LEOs who were doing the search were entirely incompetent).


#77

No blood splatter anywhere or on anything. All that stuff in the garage…and the “conclusive” results on the single bullet were possibly inconclusive.


#78

Probably the most heartbreaking moment of television so far this year (yes, yes…I know, it’s only January 12th) was watching 15 year old Kayla Avery on the stand. That poor kid. You could see the torment she was going through. Whether or not it was because she was lying to protect her cousin, or because she was lying when she gave her first statement to the police I can’t say. But when she started crying, I just felt horribly for her.


#79

Appeals filed on Monday.

Avery wrote and filed his appeal before noted defense attorney Kathleen Zellner took on his case. One of the motions claims a search warrant executed on the property was invalid, meaning evidence from the search should have been inadmissible. The second motion claims a juror pressured others into voting guilty.

The motion seeks a stay of enforcement of the judgment and release on bond. If the court decides to vacate Avery’s conviction based on his claims, prosecutors would have to decide whether to retry him without the impermissible evidence.


#80

I finally finished the entire thing last night. I still think he’s guilty, and I’m not convinced that Brendan isn’t either. But I do believe that the lawyer who represented Brendan initially should be disbarred. The crap he pulled is just inexcusable.

I also believe that the police in Manitowoc tried to shore up their case with some shady acts.

The biggest thing that bothers me about the documentary is that they glossed over some pretty important evidence against Steven. Like the fact that Steven had called and requested Theresa specifically…and had used a false name when doing so. This reinforces my opinion that the film makers had decided he was innocent, and facts were thrown in only when they supported that agenda.

Of course, the argument against that is that they were making a documentary about how the justice system can fail us no matter our innocence or guilt, and that the verdict really isn’t the point. I’d like to believe that’s true. Otherwise I just feel like it was too manipulative in the end.