What are you suggesting we do in order to be more welcoming or attractive to women and minorities? If you won’t allow me to point out things i believe are perceived as sexist, or racist, what is your suggestion?
Barney Fife!
I have no idea.
You keep using these terms without examples or context. Like welcoming to minorities or attractive to women. What are these things that keep happening on these forums that are these things. You keep saying they are there but where and what exactly are they.
I for in the topics i read see nothing against women or minority races. But you will say Ah the fact you can’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there though. I say well what are they and you will say well if you can’t see them you must be blind or the cause etc etc and around and aroun…see…
That doesn’t change the larger point that it’s a loaded term that I try to avoid, though.
Consider the shirt example I hid in one of my gigantic posts above. In my eyes, it’s just a shirt. In the eyes of some minority populations near me, it’s an implicit threat. I haven’t had the life experiences, challenges, and history to be able to naturally perceive that threat. I had to listen to minority voices and concerns and thoughts, incorporate what I was hearing, and adjust my views accordingly.
You just told me what to do, and then turned around and you told why you won’t listen when I do it.
What are you looking for? Stats, facts? It’s not going to make sense. Sexism, makes no sense. Racism, makes no sense. They shouldn’t exist, but they do.It would be nice if you could just use Oxford and Webster and use whatever word you find in there however you want it, but that’s not the reality.
Are you looking for another messenger because this one is tired being shot. Maybe go find one? If only they were here… in volume, so you could hear the different point of views you’re looking for… except they don’t come to this forum, and if they do, they don’t stay. This is partially why this topic even exists.
I still don’t understand what that has to do with JMJ using the term shrill. It fit how he felt about a certain behaviour from a user, it’ wasn’t sexist it was descriptive it fitted. Sure no one likes being called out on it, but calling him a troll because he used it is not right and certainly not something we should be saying he cannot do on here as it is not welcoming.
Reemul has a point though, we have many examples of us as forum users having used inappropriate language, mainly out of ignorance. I think we’ll find that there’s very little ill intent, so we should be able to help each other understand if we might be crossing a line, a kind of “not cool, dude” without judgment. Even if it’s just over PM. Maybe better that way.
I don’t think JMJ’s approach was unintentional. I know it’s being presented like I’m the only one who believes that, but I’m not. I think he purposefully approached the argument in the way he did.
I’m also not the one who called him a troll, not that that really matters because this approach seems to be just vs. Nesrie and kind of brushes the others aside.
It’s like some of you’ve guys made me into a symbol, when I am just a voice, a member… like everyone else.
We’re not calling a JMJ a troll because he called one user a shrill one time when some people might not have liked the argumentation style that user was using.
We’re calling JMJ a troll because he’s been routinely filling the discussions of inclusivity, sexism, racism, and atmosphere at Qt3 with lengthy stories about his dick and mocking people who want to see things cleaned up a little around here relentlessly, refusing to take the discussion seriously at all.
When that user calls the most prominent woman user in the discussion shrill, after making innumerable sexually tinged remarks over the last few weeks of this discussion here and in the Broken Forum thread, we don’t need to give him the benefit of the doubt.
No, I don’t think so either. But I think he’s also been pretty clear on why he did it, which is to get a reaction out of you.
Which makes it what… okay?
@Nesrie look a lot of what you say is great, some really good shifted view points, enjoyed your take on Monster Hunter recently. It’s just once someone, I mean anyone says something like the Shrill comment it becomes a battle and that certainly is not welcoming even to those on the forums i reckon.
That’s a bit of a leap. But you are giving him what he wants.
Blimey, you know i taught my kids, now aged 8 and 11 to ignore those people if they were that bothered by it, don’t try and change them, you probably won’t and go and do something more productive.
His behavior was really not okay. Why is it so hard to say that without saying I should change who I am. I am not even close to the most aggressive person in arguments on this forum. I won’t list names, but for some reason, I’m different. Why?
All right, let’s take this opportunity to think this through. We know this is going to be a voluntary process. If you’re engaging with someone and you tried to express yourself and aren’t getting through, what’s the next step? Do you think this rises to the level of taking it to Tom?
No you are definitely not the most aggressive but when you get the bit between your teeth you certainly hang in there and fight your corner the longest if not the most aggressively and maybe that’s not a bad thing but you need to accept you may be called on it at times.
Anyways I have said my piece and think you need to pick your battles, sometimes being spread too thinly weakens your better points and stuff gets lost in the discussions
Two thoughts come to mind.
1 - I think it is important to interact with these people, maybe confront them with they bad behavior. You can make a difference, maybe not in there lives, but perhaps in the lives of the other people being abused.
2 - It’s not the role of children to try and change these people but the role of adults and we should definitely be more involved in our communities. Sometimes that means being taking action that might have a negative impact on our lives.
In this case, I think it’s right that we discuss loaded terms and their history and why they might not be a great choice in a forum setting.
As for the term shrill, I take it you don’t use this term in a particularly pleasant way, so why use it in a forum to begin with? What is the end goal of using that particular term, to label someone as shrill?
Personally I am happy with push back that is not all sunshine and light, that example when used was explained in one the long posts up above more succinctly and accurately than I could do here.
I do not want people to not be able to use terms that may be seen by others as a negative push back, as a person if I want to say you are acting like a real boor there should be no issue with it, tell me why i’m wrong or maybe accept it if it’s true but don’t ban it, soon we will have a sticky up the top saying these descriptive terms are not acceptable to use in any format.