Manga OT - black & white is all I need for

While in this forum I’ve been focused on games, movies, series and music, there is another life-defining hobby of mine which I never comment a lot here. I’ve been a pretty avid manga reader, from 1997 to… maybe 2017? five years ago? Well, I’m not sure what happened, but since then I read much less in these last five years. I think it was a confluence of things, me getting a new job, getting a new computer, some RL stuff and also leaving a community where I wrote about manga from time to time.

But a pair of weeks ago I decided I should read it again with more regularity, and I thought, hey, I will make a thread in QT3 too. Of course, this isn’t going to be like the metal thread where one could post a video or a comment daily, but I expect to put a new post every week.
I also expect this thread to have fairly few readers. Oh well!

To start with, I just read Benkei in New York.

Jiro Taniguchi is a pretty famous seinen mangaka (who regretuflly died one or two years ago), known for a more Western style of comics. I thought he was the author here, although in reality, he is only the artist, not the writer, and in hindsight it shows a bit.

Benkei in New York is a single volume of short stories focused on Benkei, a mysteriou Japanese man in the 70’s NY. It’s all very hard boiled noir, Benkei as a character is basically ‘sad badass’ with some loose association with the mafia and a weird hobby-job He is basically vendetta-man.

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It kinda works as a mood piece/short stories, thanks to its heavy flavor in this style of hard boiled noir. Hell, the first pages, about some middle aged men savoring single malt whiskey, left me feeling a bit inadequate as a man, you know?
But it also has a three chapter longer ‘arc’ in the middle of the volume more about some mafia men that felt it was weaker than the shorter chapters.

Good idea for a thread. I’ve only dabbled a bit in manga over the past year, so I won’t have a ton to contribute, but I’ll definitely be reading with interest.

Oh, a neophyte? Something for you then! A recommendation:

Nausicaa is a classic of manga, the magnum opus of Hayao Miyazaki. Yes, the guy famous for making good anime also made a great (even greater, some would say) manga. Speaking of, it’s a pity that the existing anime of Nausicaa merely adapts a fraction of the real story, and well, it was the first time Miyazaki directed and it’s a bit rougher in that regard.

https://i.imgur.com/Uee1agM.jpeg

Nausicaa is at its core a epic, with six volumes full of adventure, lots of action (including epic battles and big flying vessels), a strange world, mysteries, twists, drama, some romance and more. You can imagine it as a mix of a for-all-ages scifi epic like Star Wars (OT) melded with the weirder and more unique world building of Dune, including the unique factions and ecology aspect, which has an important role in the story.
The art is dense and elaborate, and the action flows well between panels. The world building is very well done, with unique animals, plants, world history, ways of transport and factions. Something remarkable is how it’s filled of strong female characters, from the protagonist to the antagonist, which is well defined and doesn’t fall in being an evil villain.

https://i.imgur.com/2pEscJ7.png

I’m skimming through it right now and it’s really loaded with action, more than I remembered. There are pursuits, big WW1 battles, aerial battles, etc. Now that I think about it, it’s really a a war story, so it makes sense. But of course, it never forgets where the heart is, and that is what it makes it so good.

https://i.imgur.com/RzJjVV9.jpeg

Nausicaa is fantastic. I think I sat back in shock after reading the land battle where she sallies forth on the ostrich birds… it was a riveting sequence, and I’ve never seen it’s like.

I snagged a Humble Bundle of Kazoa Koiki and ploughed through the entire Lone Wolf series. After the first few I was worried it was going to be too episodic, but it evolves and really builds into an epic finale. His other earlier books aren’t quite as gripping, but I’m making my way through them slowly… the bundle also came with the Crying Freeman series, which is goofy and cringy in the worst way, but I’m a sucker for Ikegani’s art from reading Mai the Psychic girl as a kid.

I know I haven’t scratched the surface of what’s out there, being limited to what’s been translated. Battle Angel Alita was a great read, especially the second half. But I guess I’m just listing the ones everyone has read already.

Some years ago, like well over a decade, maybe two, I bought and read the whole run of Lone Wolf & Cub in the old Dark Horse volumes. I kind of wish it had kept the episodic nature all the way through because I thought the absolutely endless fighting towards the end was a bit silly. Also they just flipped the images for that run which nowadays I’m sure they would never consider doing; I wondered at the profusion of left-handed samurai until I finally figured it out.

I don’t disagree that the body count got ludicrous, but no more so than Savage Sword of Conan, really.

I wish the Epic comics version of Akira was still available.

Oh man, I didn’t realize Nausicaa was a manga series! I remember thinking while watching the movie that it is a pity it wasn’t longer. I always liked its world and would like to spend more time there, even though t’s not among my favorite films of his.

But, I don’t have the best track record when it comes to getting into comics. I’ve never even attempted a manga.

Goddamn it QT3…

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Now there are some books that seem hard/pricey to get hold of these days, even in reprint. I recall having quite a few in my youth.

Very nice, that’s a gorgeous edition of the manga.

Hey the thread served for something, if someone already bought Nausicaa!

Something to comment is that, as far as I know, all Nausicaa editions use recycled paper, but it’s an express request from Miyazaki, as he wanted for the actual comic to be consistent with the ecological themes.

Is that the old colored edition ? I never read that. I have a much more normal edition:
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But Mr. Turin, what is seinen?

Little kid, totally not taken from a stock photo, I’m glad you made that question!

You see, in Japan there are of course genres. Action, drama, comedy, romance… but there are known terms for demographics, for specific market sectors. So you can say so and so work is intended for, I don’t know, mature women. They are:

Shonen, or ‘for boys’. Examples: Dragon Ball, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Gintama, Slam Dunk.

Shojo, or ‘for girls’. Examples : Sailor Moon, Fruit Basket, Yona Of The Dawn, Vampire Knight, Ouran Host Club.

Seinen, for ‘young men / men’. Examples : Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Berserk, Adolf, Monster, Devilman.

Josei, for ‘young women / women’. Examples : Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Princess Jellyfish, Nana, Chihayafuru, Gokusen.

There are some other terms, like Gekiga, which was a bit in between a style focused on dramatic realism and more indie flair, for a older demographics sector, and in any case fell in disuse in the 80s, now using Seinen as a catch-all term.

To complicate things, you have to learn how mangas are published in Japan, they are (mostly? or all? I never heard of a manga being published directly) published first in manga magazines, which are big monthly or weekly magazines where series are… well, serialized. These magazines are the ones people are usually referred as shonen, seinen, etc, with the implication that shonen magazines publish shonen stories, shojo magazines publish shojo stories, etc. Because well, if you are the editor of a shojo magazine, you aren’t going to publish a gore horror story right? They know their audience.

In fact, several shonen magazines have ‘Shonen’ in their title, to clearly indicate they are for a shonen audience. Except… not all magazines are the same, not even the same for shonen magazines, some are a bit more for youngish, others for a bit more adult kids.
Because this relation between comic and magazine is a generalized simplification, that works ok most of the time yeah, but there are some exceptions from time to time, comic A in magazine B that is published even if the style is out of the norm for them, and apart from that, you have the fact that the whole categorization system is like any other categorization system, and you will have both works and magazines that happen to be a bit in between two categories, instead of squarely falling into one cleanly.
I remember years ago how an admin of a manga site said to me that Gunslinger Girl (a hard seinen imo, both in plot, themes and violence) was a shonen manga because it published on shonen magazine.

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Shonen, surprise surprise, is the most popular market. Yes, even if in Japan more people read comics than in Europe or USA, and it’s less strange for an adult to read a comic, the majority of comics are still directed to younger audiences.

It’s full of titles with action and adventure, with an extra focus on the action, the fights, as you may know if you have read or watched Dragon Ball or Naruto or whatever ‘battle manga’. Some of them are essentially a sequence of fights, one after another. Which doesn’t means action is the exclusive genre, others like comedy or sports are usual for shonen, and from time to time a shonen romance can get popular.
While technically it’s ‘for boys’, because it contains the more popular/mainstream manga, many of its stories are also read and enjoyed by girls*, or by older people that in theory they are written for. Not that different from superhero market! :P
*: in fact one of the latest hits of the decade, Demon Slayer, has been super popular with the girls.

Shojo, on the other hand, can be considered as more ‘exclusive’ to the girls. Not that it can’t be enjoyed by boys, too. The stereotype (which may not be fair for all shojo, but we want to generalize) is that 85-90% of it is romance, and more specifically it’s romance written by women and for girls, so it’s all very rosy (sometimes literally, with flower or bubbles motives drawn at the side of some panels) and saccharine.

I feel that with Seinen and Josei, this difference by genre of the reader is decreased. The audience is more mature, and they just want to enjoy a good story. I liked lots of josei, and I guess lots of women enjoyed seinen too. I have a lady friend who is super fan of Mushishi (a seinen), for example.

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I read sometimes that seinen is “for men 18 to 25 years old”, but in practical terms, it’s 18 and above. I read works that can be enjoyed by 25 years old, and 35, and 45 years old… it’s the equivalent imo to any normal adult film. In that sense, while it may use some themes more than others (college years stories, crime stories, science fiction) because it’s more oriented to males, but as I said, I think there is less difference between women stories and men stories once you reach to this age bracket. Seinen can be incredibly varied, covering basically every existing genre, and well, it’s the category where I personally ‘thrive’. As you will see 90% of what I’m going to post is going to be seinen.

One more thing, imo there is seinen and ‘seinen’. Adult comics and ‘adult’ comics. There is a sub-cateogry of seinen that I think they feel more like shonen, with lots of elements that feel similar but just the ‘adult’ version, with a more edgy protagonist, with more blood in the fights, and with tits. This is why I call them ‘seinen’ in quotes, because to me it’s so clear that the target audience is the edgy 15 years male old audience.

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Josei manga is perhaps the less known category but it actually have some hidden gems. As shojo, it has perhaps a majority of love stories, but other genres like horror, comedy or slice of life as very much present. The difference of course, it’s the most realistic approach to the stories, with deeper characters, sometimes focusing on real, mundane issues. Still, there is some variety, from almost-shojo with college girls (instead of highschool girls), to more harsh stories about drug abuse.
There is a joke about how secretly it has the best smut manga, because here unlike in shojo, people fuck, and women authors write hotter smut than men.

Again, always remember that all this is, in the end, just labels people apply after the fact. Some works will be 35% in one place, 65% in others, or 50/50% and you can’t exactly decided what it is, or it will be subjective, or just will be hard to classify.

Thanks for that, great and informative post!

Here, have some Seinen Berserk for your troubles! I’ve not been able to resist picking up these deluxe volumes from time to time, with the first five on my shelf so far, but they are pretty pricey over here.

They really are a quite lovely edition. Hot Wheels Bugatti for scale:


Reminder #988 that the author died recently and we will never have the end of Berserk.

/looks nervously to G.R.R Martin.

At the time of his death it had been running for, what, 32 years? I doubt it would have ever ended!

This is a good place to ask this, I’ll bet: what’s some manga that’s about Real Life in Japan. No supernatural stuff, no science fiction, no horror, not even stuff like Crows, really, just everyday shit. Doesn’t have to be contemporary, any period is fine. Reading Learn Japanese the Manga Way exposed me to some of these. Translation not necessary; I’ll bet most of this type never got one. I can’t really read it yet but I’m just filing this sort of thing away for the future.

Titles I’ve found so far include:

  • Yotsubato
  • Natsuko no Sake
  • Dai-Tōkyō Binbō Seikatsu Manual
  • The Shima Kosaku series
  • Probably some others I can’t recall off the top of my head

I have read things like Yotsubato, which is fairly famous in the slice of life/comedy category, or others that have some romance elements, but I can’t see I ever read something like Kosaku Shima, just ‘hard’ slice of life of a normal dude at work, which in a way sounds interesting!

As much, the closest thing I read is some stuff like Jiro Taniguchi’s A Journal Of My Father or The Walking Man. Also stuff like Piano no Mori or Blue Period, that are really about piano competition and art classes, respectively. The surely have a term too for manga like those, focused on a hobby (painting, car racing, bread making, piano, etc).

Oh yes, I forgot about Walking Man! I think Taniguchi did a boxing manga, too…

What’s the significance of these scribbles?

Well, the account is from Yoshihiro Togashi, who, after a hiatus of more than three years in Hunter x Hunter, has decided to resume it. We don’t know when it will publish again, for how much time, what was the reason of the previous hiatus, etc. In fact, this twitter account is new, a week old.

Which also points to how popular is still HxH , despite the long and common hiatuses, in a few days he got 2.5 million followers.

I said before I was a seinen guy, and well, HxH is one of the exceptions, as I love it. Then again, HxH isn’t exactly your average, run of the mill shonen. Maybe one day I will make a long post about it.

This is because the Seinen(青年)manga genre is basically defined as “not Shounen”, so there is no real differentiation between the two types mentioned above. This is also why term Seinen isn’t used as much in Japan itself all that much.

Typically magazines with the word “Young” in it are targeted towards late teens & college students while “Big” are targeting working adults. You can usually tell which is which even if you can’t read Japanese because the teen-focused ones hone in tapping into that Japanese horny energy while the other is more reserved.


Young Animal (where Berserk & March comes in like a lion is serialized)


Big Comics (Golgo 13, Blue Giant)

Thanks for the insight. Yeah, I think it’s always funny to see how horny are the covers of some magazines, and the contrast it has with the fact that they serialize fluffy, emotive stuff like ‘March comes like a Lion’.

Speaking of magazines, some really good work (from renowned authors like Hiroaku Samura or Inio Asano or Natsume Ono) has come from a magazine whose title is ‘Manga Erotics F’. I guess people who judge by the cover or title could have a surprise in that regard. Then again they also publisher ‘stronger’ stuff, not ‘porn’, but manga where they don’t censor themselves.

We also could talk of Japaneses horniness in general. It isn’t like they are more horny than us, but there is a bit of culture shock in how they use sex. They don’t seem to have any moral qualms in putting some very horny fiction in the premier kids magazine, Shonen Jump. They know what 12 years old boys are thirsty for. There is a Gintama meme for it…
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