Yeah, 17 year olds should not be allowed to play such filth. Only when they reach 18 do they have the necessary maturity to handle it.
I hope when this gets edited and released with an M, that we know exactly what was cut to make the difference between being sold in Wal-Mart and not being sold anywhere.
Other than the Wiimote part, that gameplay description doesn’t sound fundamentally different from the original Manhunt. Every melee weapon had three levels of increasingly gruesome kill moves you could use with them and the variations included cutting people in half, chopping them up with axes, and smashing their heads in. The whole thing the British censors complained about – “unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game” – also exactly sums up the tone of the original Manhunt. So why does one get banned and the other gets an M rating and wide release? Better graphics? Is it just the Wiimote part? If so, why can’t they get a separate rating for systems with normal controls?
That’s probably because that’d make Nintendo look bad. How many parents are going to like the Wii if they know their kids can pretend to strangle someone with it. First it’s some virtual actor in Scarface, next it’s his little sister because she won’t shut up.
I do think that better graphics is having an effect on how these games are perceived. 1980’s 320x240 graphics even at it’s most graphic still looks pretty cartoony - not that different from Tom & Jerry or Itchy & Scratchy. The exact same actions depicted at 1920×1080 is just going to come across differently.
[Edit: Note, I’m not saying Manhunt 1 is 320x240, just that overall as we’ve moved from 320x240 to 800x600 to 1920x1080 depicting the best graphic at the time depicting the exact same actions will be perceived very differently.]
This being New Zealand and able to fit into a decent-size garage, I know the Chief Censor who banned the first Manhunt here.
One part of me is interested in it as a game, development of the medium, emotional effects etc. the other part finds the idea of it repulsive and has no probs with it being banned. Overall, though, I think it’s a reasonable decision. If you’re gonna draw the line, literal murder simulators are a good place to do it.
Australia, on the other hand, is just wacky - anything you couldn’t show a streetwise 6 year old gets banned straight out of the gate, as far as I can tell.
Because one was released today, one was released yesterday.
Yeah, Rockstar and everybody else is laughing all the way to the bank on that one. I mean, they get pegged every now and then, but they would be nowhere near as succesful without people flipping out about it.
So I don’t know if the free market (of sorts) is going to provide the incentives you seem to be looking for. Extremists will get burned, but more than likely for being shitty games than for being violent. Me, I’m just looking for sex to stop being the US equivalent of media kryptonite.
After playing and beating the Warriors on PSP I was looking forward to another R* game. I hope it comes out without too much sacrifice.
What could they cut out to make it M-rated? Seems to me 100% of the appeal of this franchise is the fact that it’s little more than a snuff film in game form, and that’s what got it the AO. I don’t think it was like a movie bordering on NC-17 and R that just needed a few choice bits taken out. They’d have to fundamentally alter the game to the point where its appeal is lost.
I think most of the problem people have is less with the AO per se than with the bitchass way retailers and the media deal with the label. Otherwise, it’s like SMOKING KILLS on my Salems, and I can live with that. Either way, outright banning is ridiculous in my view.
Why would a rating board give a fuck what makes Nintendo look bad?
In the US, at least, it’s not outright banned.
Because the ESRB was started by the ESA and ESA is funded by major companies like Nintendo and Take 2 incidentally. Both share the same interest and are effectively lobbyists for the game industry. Much in the same way, the RIAA isn’t going to make one of its members look bad. There’s been much documentation about the favored treatment of major studio projects get (different standards) than other films by the MPAA. The ESRB is not immune to the politics of business.
Joystiq is reporting that Nintendo & Sony won’t license any AO games. Is there a PC version?
I don’t think there’s a PC version at this point, though I’m not sure. But Nintendo & Sony not licensing any AO games is not the same thing as it being banned (since obviously it could go, for example, to the PC). That was sort of my point up-thread.
True that “banned” isn’t the right word. Probably “unsellable” would be more apt.
It’s actually encouraging to see the industry police itself without any senators trying to score points with the public involved.
I don’t have any problems at all with this situation – the game seems to deserve its AO rating and console manufacturers aren’t the government, so if they pass on the game because it is AO that doesn’t make it “banned” or “censored”. If T2 cares that much they can just release it as originally designed on the PC or other open platform, if they don’t care that much and just want to cash in on all this pre-release controversy they can just cut content and resubmit and continue to get on the consoles. Something tells me they are going to do the latter.
I played the original and enjoyed it mostily. I’m wondering what could they have added to push it from M to AO, and does it have anything to do with Wii mote controls?
As talked about earlier in this thread, I think just the upgrade in graphics tech could have played a part. IMO there really is a difference between extremely violent toony games of the past and extremely violent games that are beginning to approch lifelike graphics. Just because the “think of the children” crowd were off their rockers when they cited the original Doom as having a detrimental effect on children doesn’t mean they are wrong when they say the same thing about Manhunt 2. I think this is something the game industry really needs to think about, and soon.
High minded discussions aside, can I just say: I am PISSED that this game is now at minimum going to be delayed. I was looking forward to using my Wii for something other than the fucking Everybody Votes Channel.
It’s all very well to think of the children. What about me and my desire to indulge in gory virtual murder? Who’s looking out for ME in all this, eh?