Marvel Midnight Suns: Firaxis unveils the Nico vs. Chthon showdown Marvel fans have been waiting for!

So I’m about 13 hours in. I fully expected to enjoy the tactical gameplay but loathe the rest. But, 13 hours in…

…I’m loving this. All of it.

I can understand when people don’t like the dialogue in this. In a different game, I would hate it. But let’s face it: superheroes are a silly concept. And this game embraces that. So you have these jokes all around, because the game lampshades everything. The game chooses to have fun with the very existence of this characters, and with that, I’m having fun too. It’s that kind of silly humor that exists between friends; it’s not criticism per se, it’s just pure love for something that is intrinsically silly, created for people to have fun, and this game gets it.

So yeah, I’m loving this. All the lampshading, the exploration of the Abbey and the very comic-book-y mysteries to solve, the tactical combat, the way the dev team managed to distill the essence of each character in its cards.

This is a comfort game. It’s like enjoying a comic book before going to bed. I revel in its silliness as much as I enjoy its tactical combat and its streamlined strategic layer; it’s a celebration of what Marvel superheroes were before they became super serious and “important”. This is not like most of the MCU: rather, it’s Thor: Ragnarok. And I actually think it’s better for it.

Also, so many pop culture references. This is made for geeks like me and it shows. ;)

Yeah, this is a surprise top 5 of the year for me. It wasn’t even on my radar a couple of weeks ago. Really glad I pulled the trigger on it. I’m having a great time and it’s the first game since Elden Ring that I race home from work to play.

You’ve hit the nail on the head - thus isn’t just tactical combat game, or an RPG - it really is a comic book game, a comic book series, let’s call it “The Hunt for Lilith”, brought to the PC/console.

You have superhero banter, relationships, rivalries, mysteries and puzzles to be solved, villains, and fights. It really is a comic series brought to life.

I started thinking of everyone as Archer characters and it helped

Tony is Archer, but nice. Caretaker is Mallory, I don’t trust her. Carol is Carol, but Nico can be Cheryl. Dr. Strange is Krieger. Magik is Katia. Venom is Other Barry.

I thought that in the most recent dev stream, it sounded like missions would scale with party level, at least to some extent. I imagine that the people who complained about things getting too easy had combat bonuses from the yard and the like, but stayed on normal (or lowing) difficulty. There are nine difficulty levels, after all, so should be easy enough to find the right one for anyone’s tastes.

@rhamorim I think you understand the game much better than most reviewers. Beautifully said.

Oh my God! That is marvelous! Ant totally accurate.

Yeah, it’s the best encapsulated comics experience I’ve had, as someone who doesn’t usually get into comics. I like to think of it like “ok, substitute traditional fantasy tropes for these guys, what happens then?” and the answer is…nothing changes! It’s exactly the same as most mainstream epic fantasy settings/characters where the writers are not trying to be edgelords but are rolling with the absurdity of it all. Just with Spandex and capes this time.

I realize that most of my fellow Qt3ers are expert players but I really wish with 8 difficulty levels available that Normal was a tad easier. If the purpose of reaching out to Marvel fans the difficulty should be spread out a bit more.

Can you talk a bit about what’s giving you trouble? I’d love to get into some crunchier gameplay discussions, which might be hard to believe given all the absurd narrative hoo-ha I’ve been posting. :)

One thing you mentioned earlier that I’m not sure was answered:

The answer to “when to put more effort into Abbey activities” is “never”.

The Abbey stuff has surprisingly little gameplay impact. It’s almost entirely a way to boost Friendship Levels with the different heroes between missions. However, there’s an absolute metric fuckton of costume nonsense littered in there to create the feel of progression. Which it is, to be fair, just not gameplay progression. But I would say the Abbey stuff is about 2/3 cosmetic padding (caveat: I have not unlocked anything beyond the first Word of Power, so I’ve only seen one fourth (?) of the Abbey at this point).

And I don’t mean to minimize the importance of Friendship Levels! I feel like you can’t really create meaningful “builds” for the different characters until you unlock their passives, which is going to require a total of 35 Friendship points (15 for level 1, and then another 20 for level 2). But this is going to happen naturally, just in the course of picking your preferred heroes and running through the daily checklist of activities. If you’re not min-maxxing (which I’m personally finding unnecessary even at Heroic I), there’s no need to sweat the Abbey stuff. Just do what you feel like, and if it’s tedious or you don’t understand it, just skip it. Seriously, the Abbey can wait while you play the game proper. There’s no need to run around in this weirdly janky pocket dimension any longer than you want.

As a counter point I keep unlocking a ton of blue prints for items, as well as finding resources to use for card upgrades and research (credits). I’ve gone around the grounds every night and I keep finding new things, though a lot of the times those things are cosmetic upgrades for my room and the like for sure. I did find a few really powerful items though - one is an Epic that grants Overcharge (I think - +100% damage) for one turn while inflicting Vulnerable, which has been a powerhouse card for one-shotting something big, and I just got a Rare (or possibly Epic) item that grants a target hero 2 card draws of their own deck. Some really juicy stuff to be found for the combat side of things in the Abby, and I’m only on like day 3 or something.

I’ve also found the once/day activity with a friend easy and not intrusive, no reason not to do that, and doing the training is a fast and easy way to get someone’s friendship up while also getting a sweet little boost in the next scenario for that person, if you bring them.

Another thing I have found is the scenario questions that I’ve gotten from some characters at the Abby, my opinion on a question they pose with two outcomes, has been worth doing for a quick boon here and there.

@tomchick

I have problems on Normal with any mission with Venom showing up. I can complete the Objectives except for killing all the troops once the main objectives end. I am not sure if Fallen appearing is Random (I chose Normal mission and it is much harder if Venom appears). Is this completely Random? If I do another mission and come back to the same mission the next day does that mean a Fallen will still appear. Not sure about that aspect.

I usually get injuries every battle which make s lot harder to concentrate on one main goto team. I am doing a lot better based on tips and watching a few build videos trying to upgrade certain skills (like Chain attack for Spiderman and using environmental attacks more than I was doing). BUT, even doing better I end up getting all three heroes knocked out a lot of the time. I mainly been playing the side missions trying to improve (usually Easy or Normal).

I usually try to go for the Main Objectives first if able (Destroying equipment, getting Protection down) as long as I have the cards to do it. Problem is that when I do this it can use some attack cards that I need for the harder Elite types. I do try to find the mission cards attached to the troops that can aid getting done as well. I guess I am just not good at it lol.

@Scotch_Lufkin
I do all the mansion activities and been trying to get resources but I am thinking since I do poorly not as many resources awarded to improve.

I suspect action management is the key to the game, so make sure you are doing as many things as you can every turn. Not just 3 card plays, but also using the environment at the cost of Heroism to perform extra attacks, use your movement to get into position, and try to plan ahead with the cards you know you have in your hand for sure. I like to save a big hitter card in my hand for the following turn, earning Heroism during that turn to spend it next on the big swing to take out the high hit point threat.

Keep an eye on your enemy target indicator - if you have someone almost down, try to take out (or stun/crowd control) anyone going to target that person on the enemy turn.

I will say I feel like I’m constantly playing a card and then realizing it would have been a lot more efficient to play another card first, the number of times I’ve slammed a big nasty into a power generator to stun them then realized I should have put a bleed effect on them first is… wild. I really miss the Tactics Ogre Reborn rewind time option, that’s for sure. ;)

Also two quick notes:

Ignore Stars at the end of missions. I hate this gimmick, it just makes someone feel bad if they didn’t do perfect. But all you get is Gloss, which is the most disposible of all resources, so who cares. 1 stars get degrees.

Also, make sure you are laser focused on the objective, NOT taking out all enemies. I haven’t done the mission you are talking about, I suspect it’s my next story mission and I have been putting it off to build up a bit first, but if you can ignore some aspect of the combat in favor of the actual objective, things may wrap up for you.

I’d also suspect that Story Missions are meant to be a little tougher as well, so don’t feel bad if you need to drop down to Story difficulty for them.

Also, don’t feel bad if you need to make a save every turn to reload and try things differently.

Venom seems to appear after you finish an objective. In some missions you should probably get rid of the dangerous cloaking snipers and such before actually triggering Venom.

I think that is your problem. You can’t focus on the mission objectives first or you will get swarmed by reinforcements. You will spend too much time clearing protection and other stuff while you take damage. You need to clear the field as much as possible by clearing minions. At some point, reinforcements stop, relieving some of the pressure. Every turn should be spent taking out minions, the anything left over on elites and objectives. It’s definitely a balancing act, but I think you killing yourself by focusing on objectives at the start.

I would urge you to take an hour and watch a streamer like Christopher Odd fight a battle or two. He seems to have a good grasp of tactics. He always focuses on clearing the field first.

Agree with this. Even though the game says to concentrate on the main objective, the number of missions that don’t end with “and now clear out all the remaining enemies” is small. Take out the one-hit trash first, preferably using quick actions and/or knockbacks that let you take out multiples with one play. And don’t forget to use your free move knockback every round.

Disappointed they made this game with such an old engine. I can’t remember the last time I played a game where just moving your character feels janky as this.

I would somewhat prefer disagree with this. You need to be aware of the objective, yes, but you need to clear enemies, and then whittle away the objective secondarily. Some missions like supplies do end as soon as you get the box (and you can use that to your advantage to end a mission), but others require you to eliminate remaining enemies. It’s important to know which missions require which and that takes some play time to learn.

But don’t the ones with both list both as objectives? I had assumed that was the case - if not my apologies. But if they ARE listed, as I believe, as separate objectives (do X and also defeat all enemies) than I stand by my point about focusing on the objectives alone.

First of all, that means you’re doing fine! There will be later missions where you don’t have to mop up, but right now, the game is teaching you not to forget Reinforcement management. It’s just a fact of this design that about 1-3 enemies will be showing up every round. That’s the basic flow of Midnight Suns: you manage the objective while reinforcements keep pouring in. Most of these will be the “commando” level guys that you can one-shot, but remember that each one is going to do as much damage as an elite. So as a general principle, when you’re planning your attacks, plan for damage reduction first.

The instinct from other similar games might be to whittle away at the baddies with the most hit points, but that misses the point of these one-shotters. These guys are also resources, where you spend your attacks to build up Heroism. As you may know, there are three kinds of ability cards: Attack, Skill, and Heroism. The basic flow of the design is that you use Attack cards on the one-shottie guys to build up heroism, you use Support cards to buff yourself and further build up heroism, then you spend that heroism to pay for the more dramatic Heroism cards to take down the tougher guys.

It doesn’t always work that way, of course, and some heroes mess up the paradigm (paging Doctor Strange!). But it can be helpful to keep that framework in mind when you’re thinking about each card’s place in the overall scheme of things.

Excellent question and I’m going to let you discover the answer to that one. Suffice it to say the boss battles in this game aren’t just boss battles. Firaxis learned a lot about how to introduce and keep relevant a lot of different fun enemies in XCOM. They’re doing some of that here and I love how it applies to the familiar Marvel villains like Venom et al. :)

There are some interesting push/pull dynamics in terms of playing with the same team. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer, and there are advantages and disadvantages either way. But I think if you look closer at the nature of the injuries, you’ll see they aren’t that bad. Plenty of injuries are just a malus that goes away after the starting turn, or something similarly minor that you should feel free to bring that superhero. And later in the game, injuries will actually be a resource you can trade for bonuses!

It is a puzzle! But don’t listen to anyone trying to tell you how much to focus on the objective as opposed to the enemies, or vice versa. That’s always going to be a balancing act, it’s always going to be highly situational, and figuring it out is the point of the gameplay. :)

From there, it’s all about learning how to apply which tools in which situations.

One thing to be aware of is that you might pull a hero into rotation after you’ve been “ignoring” him or her for a while, and that can put you in a sticky situation. So I try to go through all my heroes every two or three missions just to make sure their decks are optimized; this is usually a matter of making sure to upgrade and swap in cards when available. There’s at least one point in the story where certain heroes are mandatory for certain missions, and I got stuck having to play characters I hadn’t fiddled with for five or six missions. That was painful!

Yep, you have the right idea! And if you’re already tussling with Venom, you seem to be making progress well enough. What are your highest level characters? And can you say without spoilers where you are in the storyline? I wonder if that’s a good metric for where people are in the storyline, or if it will vary by monkeying with difficulty level?

Let me know when you get to day 28 and we’ll talk. :) But the point I was making is that you should never feel compelled to put effort into the Abbey. It’s not a gameplay system that’s supposed to be throwing up any pushback or leveling challenges at you. It’s downtime between missions and it’s mostly cosmetics, busywork, and narrative chaff.

Can you give me more details on what those are? What do you mean by “items”? Do you mean consumable items? Or ability cards? I’m not sure what you’re describing, but I seriously doubt you found those in the Abbey. Do you remember where you found them?

Those are help quests and there’s never any reason not to do them! You can tell them by the question mark symbol and they are a source of some nice bonuses. Along with training and perhaps some other systems I haven’t researched yet, they seem to be one of the main ways you boost characters’ secondary abilities (strength, willpower, etc.).