2961

Probably because you are, as you have been told numerous times in this very thread, trolling people over and over about the whole thing.

I’d go over each place you do it for you, but you either already know it, or are so oblivious to it, that its pointless.

2962

Seriously? Read back from page 90, and you’ll see the discussion heat up without any help from Tom. He doesn’t show up until page 91, and it’s Murbella who literally focusses everything on Enders again, stating Tom forgot to use the term in his post.
After that, everyone keeps beating his own dead horse, which is exactly the problem with this thread, and loads of others like this one. Neither side is even remotely interested in what the other side has to say, because neither side will ever, éver, admit they might be slightly wrong. So no matter what arguments either side comes up with, nothing will change, and the discussion goes on and on forever.

Too bad, I’d rather talk about the (good) game itself. But he, that’s just me.

2963

Edit: No reason to keep on the tired old arguments with people who cant be bothered to read the thread.

2964

With or without edit, you’re just proving my point. I did read the thread, I just don’t agree with you. And instead of accepting that, you assume I didn’t read. Because if I díd read it, how could I ever disagree, right?

… sigh.

I do agree with part of the edit though: keeping on the tired old arguments is pointless. So I wont bring it up again. Sometimes frustration just gets the upper hand, sorry.

2965

Probably because I am what? Showing contempt to people who don’t like the ending? Okay, show me. By all means do go over it for me. I’m calling you out, Razgon. If you’re going to jump in here and make an accusation, follow through. Don’t just pull a Murbella and slink off when you’re challenged. And don’t even think about accusing someone else of not reading the thread if you’re going to make a claim about something that hasn’t even happened.

I have repeatedly said that I have no problem with people who dislike the ending. You show me where I’ve been contemptuous towards those people. Because you, malk, and Murbella are proving the point perfectly that you’re incapable of discussing the issue without flying off the handle at some perceived slight. So I ask again, why do you think that is?

Alternatively, I’ll wait for you to show me where I’ve said I have a problem with people who don’t like the ending.

-Tom
2966

I liked the ending. I just have no idea whether it was the original or the DLC that I played.

2967

So, is there a new DLC out (and is it any good?) or are we still discussing the ending in the, what, 2009? game.

They still doing Multiplayer stuff for it by the way? I think they were surprised how popular it was. Hopefully we’ll see this area expanded in MassEffect 4 in all 3 coloured versions.

Hope they bring out 3 boxes for ME4. So you pick your ending based on the colour of the box you buy :)

2968

Do Enders get bent out of shape for being called Enders? Do they think “Take Back Mass Effect”, or whatever it’s called, sounds any less ridiculous? The way I look at it, calling them Enders is doing them a favor.

Doing them a favor? Because otherwise they should be called more …and I use your words ridiculous things?

For instance, I’m inferring that you’re an idiot.

While certainly your prerogative, I find that…less than nice.

No, this was a conversation about how the entire game plays out (feel free to read Isis’ post and my response). Once again, you’re trying to make it a conversation about the last fifteen minutes (i.e. “the ending is the ending”). Unbelievable.

Unbelievable? Because they talk about something else than you?

And then RickH did the same thing when you asked him to do the exact same thing.

Yep, idiotic. I think it’s idiotic to sign a petition demanding that Bioware rewrite the ending of the game to suit your demands for better writing quality (ha!), or less ambiguity, or more closure, or whatever stupid demands they feel the need to level at Bioware.

I’ll refrain from reposting them all, but here you don’t really seem to like people who doesn’t like the ending, and do something about it.

The more important response, the one we should be worried about, is far more rigorous focus grouping and second guessing when it comes to endings. The goal won’t be better written endings, mind you. It will be safer endings. Traditional endings. Endings that no one can really object to. Enjoy them. Because if you think the ending of Mass Effect 3 merits the noise made by people who wanted to be part of something called “Retake Mass Effect”, you deserve what you get from here on out.

Here, you tell people that they deserve what they get from now on…

I could keep this up, but there is really little point - Ultimately, its your tone throughout the conversation that shows exactly what you think, and the above examples as well.

I know this isn’t the first time this has been brought up, and you didn’t believe it the last time either. I just don’t have the time to dig up all the dirt there is on you in this thread.

Its just funny that the overwhelming majority thinks that you are trolling then, right?

I don’t expect anyone on the internet to change opinions at all - I just don’t like the tone. Hell, someone even said “You are better than that”, so perhaps there is something to it after all?

I’ll leave this particular conversation at that - I’ll respond to you if you want me to, but I am done digging up examples. As I said, either you do it full on purpose (You are a pretty good writer after all), or you can’t see it at all, in which case I don’t think your opinion will change.

edit: One last thing - The only person here flying off the handle right now is you - I’m perfectly calm. No slinking either, as you want to accuse me off

2969

I’m beginning to think this is a classic case of the American disease in full effect. That dogged inability to countenance the idea that ones own opinions might not be as sure footed as one believes or possessing the requisite degree of humility to even consider re-assessing them when faced with a rebuttal. I feel like I’m witnessing Bill O’Reilly having one of his more hilarious on air meltdowns in truth.

2970

I was flying off the handle by gently pointing out that the way that a term was intended to come across isn’t always the way it did come across? Because, you know, the reason you keep having to profess that you don’t have a problem with people who merely dislike the ending is that it often doesn’t read that way. It’s not like I don’t know the feeling - see how often I have to reassert that I actually do like the vast majority of Mass Effect 3, because when I post about the ending, I tend not to come off that way.

2971

Ah, I see what’s going on here. You’re moving the goal posts to talk about how you “don’t like my tone” and you’re going to quote Jonathan Crane’s weird post (speaking of slinking away…). If you want to talk about how I respond in kind to people like Murbella and RickH, we can talk about that. But that’s not what anyone was talking about when you decided to jump into the thread.

Pretty much everyone in this thread distinguishes between people who don’t like the ending of Mass Effect 3 (we’ll call them group A) and people who don’t like the ending of Mass Effect 3 and then react in some, uh, extreme way (we’ll call them group B). The point many of us have tried to make – which people like malk, as he admitted, don’t seem to understand – is that no one is lumping group A in with group B.

(Side note: I hated the pre-ending ending of Mass Effect 3, where you go through the base and talk to all your space buddies, so I’m arguably a subset of Group A.)

What you’re unable to demonstrate, and what you apparently claimed, is that I’m contemptuous of group A, when no such thing is true. Am I willing to scrap with people who, I presume, are members of group A when they say stupid things like “Tom Chick hates all RPGs with stories” and “Tom Chick says Mass Effect 3 is garbage”? Sure. I’m happy to give as good as I get. But my point is that I have no problem with group A as a whole.

The “dirt on me”? Good lord. What is this, Watergate?

Wait, you’re kidding, right? Where have I heard that appeal to an “overwhelming majority” before?

Oh, please. Right back at you, Razgon. I’m perfectly calm as well and willing to have a civil discussion with anyone who extends me the same courtesy.

-Tom
2972

Can you show me anywhere in this thread – or anywhere else – where I’ve so much as implied that I “have a problem with people who merely dislike the ending”? I’m being 100% serious. Because I don’t think you can.

-Tom
2973

Group A rules! Down with Group B!

2974

Down with A. People of group A are no good, and want to trample on our liberty. Group B for great justice!

2975

Well I only joined facebook site, which I read at the time I generally resonated with the below statement. I think at some point a similar statement with our names from our facebook accounts were forwarded at some point to Bioware.

As a said, as someone that had faith in Bioware name brand I voted with my wallet every time they released a product. My participation was an effort to inform the developers and publishers, that the quality of this product didn’t meet the standards they promised, or the standards I have come to expect of them. I felt strongly enough about that, it was likely to effect my desire to automatically pre order future products based on the quality of their brand. I would hope that if enough of the folks that purchased the product, had expressed similar views they might either address that via statement, action, or at least be cognizant if future releases suffered the might have an idea of why the fan base was shrinking.

Please Note: If game publishers had quality surveys like other applications and services I would have simply have resorted to that. Sadly, game publishers don’t currently ask for consumer feedback in the manner of most other products or services.

"Bioware is a business if we can help them understand that by using the current endings they alienate (no pun) part of their customer base, and destroy the replay ability of the trilogy they are hurting their profits we CAN bring about a change for the better.
Description
The #RetakeMassEffect movement does not in anyway condone attacks or insults on Bioware, EA, Bioware employees, or anyone associated with them. We are not here to make enemies. We are here to show a company that their devoted fanbase has been hurt, and alienated with some of their actions, and to ask for an explanation, and hopefully a solution."

Ok in fairness I changed two words from their statement, like replacing make with help. We can’t make anybody do anything, but I can help someone see their actions, or inactions have an impact on how others see and believe in them, but other than a few poorly chosen words I agreed with the goal.

2976

Thanks for posting that, David. But surely there’s more to it than that? Is that really the full text of the Take Back Mass Effect statement? That’s a confused bundle of saying not very much at all.

Look, I don’t want to go full-on dick at you, but I basically believe that, yeah, it was silly of you to sign that petition, partly because it’s so vague, but mainly because it sets a terrible precedent in what is still a young form of entertainment. I furthermore believe that it’s silly of you to extrapolate from your disappointment in the ending all that you’ve said about the “quality of what Bioware promised” and your “faith in the brand”. As some of us have said several times, the final fifteen minutes of the game can only have so much impact on the entire 120 hour saga that you, no doubt, enjoyed.

We’ve gone over all this earlier in the thread, but since you asked, there’s my rebuttal to what you wrote. I can appreciate your disappointment and I can even more appreciate that you must feel powerless at times. But joining an inarticulate, confused, unreasonably angry mob is almost never a good idea, in any aspect of life. :)

Most of all, I respect that you feel you’re doing the right thing. But the end result is a net negative to people who want better narrative in videogames.

-Tom
2977

It’s about de-legitimizing people who disagree with you so you don’t have to address arguments. Just keep repeating the label – win!

2978

Group A forever! The traitorous dogs of Group B will dance on the bones of tradition if you let them prevail! GROUP A! GROUP A! GROUP A!

2979

FYI Raz, it’s a trap. He’ll reply to your hour or so of work with a single, non-responsive sentence and (speculation zone) laugh and laugh at his triumph.

2980

I get that you don’t intend to come off that way and I doubt that you would agree that any posts I cited give that impression. But I think there’s a reason that you keep having to post the contrary, and at a certain point it’s worth admitting that the failure to communicate isn’t all one way. (If you insist, I’ll go dig back into the original arguing back in the spoiler thread last year, which is where a lot of that impression comes from for me - I think this recent resurgence has been significantly less heated - but I’m posting from my cellphone right now and that will have to wait until I can scroll easily.)