I mostly recall people being upset over Fallout 3’s ending not letting them continue to play in the open world, but I suppose they may have also had complaints about the actual ending. I’ve never finished the main quest in that game so I have no idea what either ending involves.

Since the game has been out forever I don’t know if I should spoiler this or not so…

Spoiler

In the original ending you die.

I would add “stupidly” as well. It really only made sense with a couple of variables.

Edit: I think the ending of Fallout 3 wasn’t as much of a dust-up because the open-world nature of the game (like all Bethesda open-world RPGs) are really more about the player creating their own stories.

How do you think Skyrim fans would react if the actual plot line ended the same way Fallout 3 ended?

And if I recall correctly, it was changed in the subsequent DLC. Which as we all know should never, ever happen or artistic integrity will collapse on itself, taking the Earth with it. [eyeroll]

And yet there is one party that is conspicuously absent from all this debate – the vigorously defended artist him/herself. What does Mass Effect’s auteur think about all this? Does one actually exist?

I have no idea. Todd said they specifically changed the ending of Fallout 3 not for narrative reasons, but to accomodate the DLC so players didn’t have to start over. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but as I said I don’t think changing the ending of a Bethesda open-world RPG matters much because most people play them for the open world stuff, they don’t care as much about the main storyline.

Look in our own Skyrim thread. How many people said they’ve never even finished the main quest? I don’t think they’re outliers. Last time I checked the Steam stats for people finishing the main quest was at about 50% of players.

Contrast that with the Mass Effect series which is linear in nature. The whole point of the game is to get to the end and take part in the story. People got a lot more hot about the ending because they felt it was a crappy cap to a long and emotionally invested journey.

Patrick Weekes wrote this on the PA forums:

[INDENT]I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewed

And again, it shows.

If you’d asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I’d break them down as:

Galactic Alliances
Friends
Organics versus Synthetics

In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay – a deliberate “nothing happens here” area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the “nothing happens here”-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me – every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.

The endgame doesn’t have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here’s the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here’s the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.

I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be – something that I’ve been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson’s goodbye.

For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just… You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he’s not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it.

And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:

a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory
b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.
c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out

I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.

Okay, that’s a lot to have written for something that’s gonna go away in an hour.

I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.
And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes – all three of them.

Take that as you will.
[/INDENT]

Granted the difference in game play…open vs linear…but I know I finished Oblivion’s main plat and will at some point finish Skyrim’s. As in Fallout 3 you can continue on after finishing the main plot. I think if you died finishing Skyrim’s main plot there would be riots in the street. Nobody would finish it.

As I have said before, the ending of Mass Effect 3 was confusingly meh to me. I didn’t much like it but I loved the game itself.

I recall there being some controversy about whether the poster on PA really was Weekes and I don’t recall if that was ever resolved.

The poster went back later and asked people not to quote him out of context or make a big deal out of it for fear of getting into trouble. Obviously, that could still be fake, but the poster was quite well known on the PA boards for being Patrick Weekes before.

Given up the good fight for arguing in good faith, eh?

Chortles

Indeed a fair point.

Mordbid cusiosity.

No. Save your time and money. First couple of seasons were really top notch on the whole, but part way through the third the season things took a massive nosedive when they get into this whole ‘final five’ business to explain the absence of the ‘missing’ 5 Cylon models and they had to massively Retcon a bunch of storyline elements, most of which don’t hold up to the simplest scrutiny.

True. Let’s also not forget that Valve playtest the living shit out of their games and pretty much anything and everything is up for the chop when they do. They’ve cut and changed characters and entire plot points throughout that gamers haven’t felt worked yet you’d be hard pressed to describe their games as the MoR garbage that Tom seemingly feels is the inevitable resultant.

It’s a lesson for the future though. Plain truth of the matter is Casey Hudson & Mac Walters needed to know their outcome at the beginning of the project and they done fucked up in that regard and left it to the last minute. Telltale…they knew how The walking Dead was going to end when they started the first episode, and everyone in the office knew what they were working towards as well and had voiced their support on it.

Or to put another way, make sure you give us what we want and how we want it or there will be hell to pay.

So the rest of Mass Effect 3 was so good at melding art, music, gameplay and story towards the same goals because of heavy peer review by all the writers. That’s interesting. And then the ending was the work of Casey Hudson and one other writer working alone with no peer review.

He makes some great points about the shortcomings of the ending and how they didn’t meld gameplay into the narrative. At least the music was up to the task at the end though. That music still gets to me every time. And the death of Anderson really was well done.

Well, I can only hope that future Bioware games have the whole game peer reviewed by their own writers. They’re obviously very good at it.

Maybe i’m not reading enough sarcasm in to this, but this is a silly comment.

Why is getting what you want for your money bad? Damn right there should be hell to pay if we don’t get what we want, because unhappy customers take their future business else where.

Imagine the blood in the streets if the next elder scrolls games was a story based rpg and not an open world game. Is it within their right to make whatever the hell game they want and do things they know their fans won’t want? Of course and it may even gain them new fans doing so, but chances are, it will also lose them old fans.

Now if bioware was going out of business tomorrow (or just had unlimited wealth like blizzard) and didn’t give a damn about people buying their games again in the future, they could do whatever the hell they want.

Never mind the ending. Why no gamepad support for the PC version?

For shame :(

I dread the fanboy freakouts and tears when GRR Martin ends the Game of Thrones series with an alien invasion and a vampire love story.

Maybe you missed the memo, but the reapers are invading and shepard doesn’t have time to wait for you to aim with a gamepad =p

As I said in an earlier post, if there is no engagement with the argument, then mockery is all I will bother with.

Feel free to do an official Chick-and-go-find for the post and quote it to be awarded one (1) personalized unresponsive reply focusing on random minutae and demonstrating for the thread readers that I don’t respect your points enough to address them.

No, Murbella, demanding a content rewrite because you didn’t like the original is silly. The bolded section, that’s your voting power. That’s all you need.

OK, have fun with that. I’ll talk with these other guys I guess.