Now this is worth complaining about. Played ME2 on XBOX360 with a gamepad. Bought ME3 for PC and played with keyboard and mouse. Totally unnatural I tell ya.

It just sounds like you want to suppress opinions you don’t agree with though.

The two things are not mutually exclusive. When i buy a product i don’t like, barring special circumstances, it affects the chances i will buy products from that company in the future. If my dislike (or like) was strong enough, it is likely i will share that opinion with friends or on internet forums like this.

This way not only do i reward/punish companies for perceived rights/wrongs, i spread that opinion to some degree to others.

It also feels better to get it off your chest.

I guess the difference between us is i think signing a petition saying that bioware should fix an ending which they perceive as low quality is basically communicating the status of the community to bioware, similar to those “how is our service” questionnaires at restaurants.

I don’t sign any petitions though because 1) i don’t believe any company pays attention to them, and 2) I don’t expect any video game developer to have any post release support in this day and age, even if the game needs it.

Why can you not accept that some people did like the end of mass effect 3 because they felt it was rushed and semi unfinished?

I’ve said this multiple times in this thread alone, Murbella, but what’s one more: I don’t give a good goddamn how you feel about the ending of Mass Effect 3. That’s your business alone. What actions you take because you feel let down by the ending are my concern however. I believe you are wrong to attempt to coerce an action from Bioware because of your feelings about incompleteness or wrongness of the ending. I don’t know where the hell you draw these inferences that I want to suppress opinions because, lest you’ve forgotten since I started this paragraph, I do not care what opinions you hold about the ending of Mass Effect 3. And, incidentally, the fact that you draw no distinction between a petition seeking to change the ending of a game and a questionnaire soliciting your opinion about the quality of your food is laughable.

Bah. They’re shooters, and like all shooters, should be played with mouse and keyboard. That is the one and only True Way ™.

No, i draw absolutely no distinction.

The only difference is that in one example i’m privately telling the company my opinion and in the other i’m saying it in public.

If i go to a restaurant, the food tastes terrible and i fill out their questionnaire telling them so, i expect/hope that they will change it. I probably won’t know though as i probably won’t go back unless a friend tells me it is better. Are my feeling on this strange, maybe? I’d feel the same if i was saying something good though.

You say you don’t give a good goddamn how i, or others feel about the ending, but then you say i’m wrong if i complain in public that i feel the ending feels incomplete or of low quality.

It isn’t that i don’t understand your point of view though. You can’t make everyone happen and thus changes often hurt some. One gamer’s fix is another’s nerf (to take a term from mmorpgs). I’m not a huge fan of most open world rpgs even though the industry is heading in that direction due to them being popular (for the moment). This was a change made to appeal to an audience that made the games appeal less to me. I’m sure that audience thought they were great changes, but of course, i disagree.

One of the things that annoys me the most about this thread is when certain other individuals talk about how it is ok to not like the game, but if you claim to dislike it because of a belief that there were quality problems in the end, then there is something wrong with you.

Also, as stated, i did not sign the petition. Although it is true that my feelings are likely similar. Bioware’s recent released have turned me from a rabid fan that (stupidly) preorders all of their games, to a jaded gamer who waits for reviews. If anything we do bioware a disservice by not letting our opinion, positive or negative, known so that they can plan for it in order to increase profits.

Murbella, do you have any idea how exasperating you are to communicate with? Again: at no point in this thread nor in any other thread have I said you are wrong to complain about your feelings about how the game ends. Or how it starts or how it middles, for that matter. This is a video game discussion board. It’s what we do.

You’re not talking about that. You’re talking about changing the content of the ending of a game. You’re talking about telling Bioware that not only don’t you like the game, you need it to change. Voting with your dollars, staying out of a low quality restaurant to keep your metaphor, is not sufficient for you. You need to change the menu. Never mind that others may like the food just fine, you don’t, so screw them.

I’m not sure I am reading this right, you don’t care at the start you say you don’t care but half through you give a shit and say he’s wrong and you don’t like him doing what he wants to do which is signing a petition because of what the petition wants.

I don’t give a crap whether he or you are right or wrong, if he wants to sign a petition he can and for whatever reason including changing the ending, getting a refund or never going to be buying again he’s the customer and its his money, you don’t have to do any of it but feeling threatened which you obviously are is ridiculous, also fact you don’t want him to for whatever reason, well let him get on with it and you should respect his right to do this rather than berate him over something you think is wrong when its just a choice which he is entitled to make.

Take a step back, think about what you are arguing about and realise its a load of crap, bloody hell.

Thanks! That was actually really interesting, and really explains a lot.

What about the right of the silent customers who don’t want it to be changed? Shouldn’t you and he respect that as well? Also if he wants a different ending so badly, why doesn’t he write his own fan fiction or mod and apply that to the game? All that energy whining and petition writing could be best spent on his own novella describing his own “special” ending.

It’s pretty hard to guess what silent people think . Thats why those that speak up have a greater chance to get things done / changed.

Your wish is granted.

I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

And honestly, it kind of shows.

[B]Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewed

And again, it shows. [/B]

If you’d asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I’d break them down as:

Galactic Alliances
Friends
Organics versus Synthetics

In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay – a deliberate “nothing happens here” area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the “nothing happens here”-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me – every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.

The endgame doesn’t have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here’s the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here’s the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.

I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be – something that I’ve been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson’s goodbye.

For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just… You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he’s not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it.

And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:

a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory
b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.
c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out

I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.

Okay, that’s a lot to have written for something that’s gonna go away in an hour.

I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.
And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes – all three of them.
So now that a Bioware employee, that was one of the writers for the game, except the ending, (where all the writers were shut out) has basically said everything that most of us have been saying for months can we stop pretending that the original ending was the same quality as the rest of the game and that it did what it was supposed to do?

Is it ok to now say plot mishandled, rushed, botched, busted, half-assed, ending? Or will we still “be wrong”?

FUD much?

Seriously, I already pointed out the fly in the ointment in the form of Valve and how they operate entirely through public playtesting. Bring something concrete to the table instead of this fearmongering BS, you’re worst than Bill O’Reilly in the ‘it will all be terrible stakes’. Change the channel, because this one’s played out.

In other words what you’re saying is that Bioware shouldn’t give a shit about their silent customers and instead focus on the loudest and whiniest. Umm, ok.

Yeah, thats exactly what I said. It’s no wonder people label you troll, is it?

Apparently this quote has been disclaimed as fake by Bioware, Casey Hudson and Patrick Weekes as fake. I imagine you don’t believe that for one second but I’m going to chalk this one up to he said/she said at best. So no, I don’t find your argument compelling.

You’re running in circles, Kadayi, we’ve already discussed play balance and beta tests and solicitations for public opinion. And I don’t know where the hell you’re going with this Bill O’reilly crap.

Just as someone can make a petition to change the ending of mass effect 3 to be less broken/unfinished, you can make a petition to to keep it how it is, or change it to kittens.

It doesn’t matter though, because either way i doubt the company will pay attention to it.

No, bioware is a for profit company trying to make the highest profit possible. If they think they can do that by making this a game where you spend the entire game running a small bar and selling crafted items to adventurers, then so be it. This isn’t to say that such a change would appeal to me though, but then bioware does have a recent history of trying to appeal to new audiences and alienating old ones so the feeling isn’t unknown.

Of course because The Vast Majority of customers for any product never submit any feedback no matter what, they have to guess at the numbers happy/angry based on feedback/research so it is never entirely accurate i’d imagine.

None of this stuff is unique to video games so i’m not sure why everyone is getting so upset that customers complained about the quality of a product in public.

I loved kotor2 to death, but you didn’t see me trolling people who claimed it had an unfinished ending. It did, but i thought the original ending was still better than The Vast Majority of game endings and the rest of the game was amazing. Kind of like mass effect 3 actually… To take a page from Tom’s playbook, the last 15 minutes being subpar didn’t ruin the end.

I have not played this game yet. I refuse to install origin on my computer. Maybe one day this will come onto Steam or Ill decide origin is “safe” and give it a try.

However, I find it very interesting, that well over a year after this game came out, and not being an MMO (AKA People are not continuously playing it), that the debate about the ending rages on. I wonder how Ill feel, although Ill have the foreknowledge of these endings of this game.

Actually, I’d say that video games are uniquely able to provide very detailed metrics to the creators about what the customer experiences during consumption. They get data about all sorts of things, especially if you opt in to their online services like the Mass Effect 3 network.

Obviously, they don’t get data on “How many people liked the ending we wrote?” They do get stuff like the following:

How many players got to the end?
Which endings were available? (IE - Did they amass enough War Assets to get the “good” ending?)
Which ending did they choose?
How long did it take for them to select an ending?
Did they replay the full game?
Did they replay a portion of the game to choose a different ending?

More importantly, the know how much money the player spent on DLC, which I’d guess is really the question the suits care about.