I’m not a republican, I have conservative nature. I have no problem calling Nazis bad, as a rule, its a declared organization, and I no way support White nationalist or their ilk in any way. I do advocate you need to understand your enemy to defeat them, and the growing movement of White nationalist, nativism, and intolerance IS the enemy and if you don’t know what is drawing disenfranchised people to that cause, and seek to counter it, then you are your OWN worst enemy!
Problem is that a literal, actual, Nazi is running for the congressional district I lived in. On the ballot in November.
To the point that both parties are equally responsible for the breakdown in political discourse and the current polarization is to take a counterfactual view of recent history. Let us not forget that President Obama, often to his detriment and discredit, constantly and unwaveringly reached out across the aisle. Tried to work with people. This is entirely driven by the reactionary right and their propaganda machine. That there is a rise of partisanship on the left is not reflective of both sides being equally bad, but rather a reflection on the reality that you can not compromise with literal Nazis. There are lines you do not cross, and demonizing millions for their ethnicity is certainly one of them. So rising left partisanship is not only not equally bad, it is nessecary at this point.
Unfortunately, sure, but a cold reading of the political reality.
I find myself annoyed by the hand-wringing about how we need to find common ground. People ask how might we “meet in the middle,” as though this represents a safe, neutral and civilized space. This American fetishization of the moral middle is a misguided and dangerous cultural impulse.
The middle is a point equidistant from two poles. That’s it. There is nothing inherently virtuous about being neither here nor there. Buried in this is a false equivalency of ideas, what you might call the “good people on both sides” phenomenon. When we revisit our shameful past, ask yourself, Where was the middle? Rather than chattel slavery, perhaps we could agree on a nice program of indentured servitude? Instead of subjecting Japanese-American citizens to indefinite detention during WW II, what if we had agreed to give them actual sentences and perhaps provided a receipt for them to reclaim their things when they were released? What is halfway between moral and immoral?
We do not need to “understand” nazis. They’re nazis. Remember that time when we all fought to rid them from the planet? I mean I suppose there were people shouting “hold on guys, maybe they’re just misunderstood. If we took some time to understand them maybe they’d leave us alone.”
But it turns out the right course of action was eradication.
QFMFT! I’m gonna cross stitch this into a goddamn pillow.
I was thinking more like Karl Plagge I read when I was college and thought wow, even in the middle of evil, people still manage to make a diffirence
or this story I read recently.
I’m NOT defending evil, I’m moved that even in the midst of evil, people will risk everything to do the right thing.
It’s really great that you want to highlight the “good” outliers in the Nazis, but until I actually see that kind of heroism noted, I’m going to safely assume every goose-stepping Jew-hating moron is an evil sumbitch.
I’m fine with that generalization.
I respect this in that yes, their are norms that should not be accepted, absolutely. Not accepting an action or a idea because it is morally reprehensible, I completely agree with
I cant wrap my head around calling my uncle evil because he’s experience, circumstances, and lack of critical reflection doesn’t allow him to see what I see. That’s not evil, that’s mislead. I have a responsibility in the community and family in helping him see that don’t I?
I should admit, I’m a smidge on the autism spectrum. As a result, I often don’t see/process the world like most people do.
One of my hangups, is when people use narrative absolutes to make a point, its just NOT accurate. I’ll admit, what you are saying is conventionally accurate. Its their declared intent afterall, to do wipe out a race. I just also see that despite that declared intent, exceptions do exist.
I listen to political speeches and often hear monolithic absolutes used in narratives, and I also see the harm that can result, and it can cause confusion, overgeneralization, or misinform to those accept these narratives without critical reflection (left and right). So I have a inherent aversion to it. Thus I generally tend to over detail my perspective and call them out as I see them as a key factor in the current social unrest.
If your uncle has a problem with Jews, and I am going to assume he must or why on Earth would be talking about this in the, looks at the topic : mass shooting at the synagogue, if he didn’t because he believes some bullshit stereotypes about Jewish people and somehow thinks they got a leg up on other white people because of it while they mop up their literal life’s blood off the floor where they died, then your responsibility to your community is not to enable that dangerous mentality.
I would have to look back on what triggered the example, but I recall using it to give an example for why people voted for Trump, (because of illegal immigration in this case and how it directly effected his life). Nothing to do with Jewish culture
to be clear, the attack on the synagogue in Pittsburgh was an example of hate and evil, period.
No, this is bullshit, and I will explain why.
Certainly, in Nazi Germany, there were probably members of the Nazi party who were so because the alternative was death, or perhaps due to some higher sense of patriotism to Germany.
Today?
No. There are zero good Nazis.
Really every single Nazi, in the entire world, is a piece of shit and the world would be better with them dead.
I am absolutely certain of the correctness of that statement. It’s ok to say Nazis are evil, because they are evil. I mean, Jesus Christ, they are essentially the ARCHETYPE of evil.
Since I agree with you, I obviously didn’t make my case as clearly as id hoped.
No one that chooses to call themselves a Nazi TODAY is a good person. Its a choice, rather than a political mandate of a government of the 1940s
Well at least we can agree on that. One step further, if someone looks at this shooting and starts talking talking about their economic anxiety and Trump, you can then reel them back to reality, people are dead, literally dead due to lies and fear-mongering, and there is nothing both sides about it. There is only one major party int his country with the Neo Nazis and white supremacists gnawing on the corpse of it’s former self and when the maggots start popping out of the eyeballs, it’s not going to be because the liberals wanted to talk about taxes and the environment and the violence being committed against certain communities, it’s going to be because they invited the parasites into their midst and somehow thought they wouldn’t get infested, and not only that, when they realized it was happening they invited more in instead of cutting off the rotted limb at the joint.
FWIW, besides the other glaring points people have made, you have completely ignored how 25+ years of mostly false, misleading propaganda against Hillary Clinton impacted the election.
IMHO, more people probably voted against Hillary than for Trump. For that reason, she was a bad candidate, and yet still won the popular vote, and could well have won the electoral college if not for shennanigans (whether they be Russian or Voter Suppression, etc.). We’ll never really know, but in my mind, the lies and misinformation over decades made it true enough to enough people to probably be the deciding factor.
2 things: Greed & Racism/hate
Yes, HC was done in by a few thing in my mind…
- The hacked emails, which the Intelligence community says was the Russians! Whether that was coordinated or not with Trump admin- has yet to be proven- but per Trump Jr admissions-there is certainly smoke…
- Comey re-opening the investigation. I haven’t heard the definitive reason for that but one of the thing I heard was that elements within his own team were going to leak it as a coverup. and he made the decision that reopening and clearing it late in the game did less harm than the alternative.
- the Leak that she got the edge up on Bernie for the debate (I think his supporters just couldn’t get over that)
- The Benghazi overreaction seemed like the she was covering up something, but honestly it felt more to me like they were overcompensating because they dismissed something that ended up being relevant (which has to be easy considering how many alerts they get), Instead of an actual cover up for malfeasance.
Really, THIS thread is where someone is going to make a “not all Nazi’s” stand?
Both side-ism is a sign of cowardice or moral weakness. Only one side is advocating fear and hate - which is what directly to this.
Fear and hate middle-easterners (except for the Jews and Christians that come from there).
Fear and hate foreigners who want to come to the US for a better life (except for the white Europeans)
Fear and hate people who want to practice their foreign religion (except the Jews)
Fear and hate Soros, Bloomberg, and all those Jewish Financiers (except only those particular Jews)
Fear and hate socialists, communists, and liberals (but not the ethnic groups associated with them)
Fear and hate people who practice minority lifestyles and beliefs (but not the Jews, oh no - just gays and transsexuals, and whatever).
Fear and hate the media and hollywood stars (but not the religious minority group that happens to be drawn to those roles)
etc, etc, etc.
Like how they say to fear and hate poor people from the inner city, people who use the wrong illegal drug over another right illegal drug, the ethnic groups most associated with poverty - and then claim - but oh - we never meant BLACK people! Just all the attributes we try to get you to associate with them!
Finally someone Hears The Message, but forgets the parenthetical and Republicans are all Shocked, Shocked! We said everyone BUT at the end - how did you not hear that?
Funny thing is I agree all this is wrong, on every point.
I just have this experience that not all the supporters hold these positions. For those that do, yes they are idiots. For those that don’t, I consider it my calling to help them see their failure of their own side, instead of focusing on the failures of the ‘other’ side.
“Both side-ism is a sign of cowardice or moral weakness.” in that case I’m weak.
I read the article like the following (and there are a slew of them), and I cant help but be convinced that tribalism is a big factor here. There is evil, for sure, but the thing taking apart in the US right now is not that evil as much as it is us responding to narrative and tribal influences.