Paul Thurrot calls Opera Software an also-ran in the browser market? Sure, they’re not big on the PC, but the Opera browser is widely used on handheld devices and cellphones, as well as on the Wii.
Their reveneue was ~82 million dollars last year, with a net income of ~15 million dollars. I doubt many other companies solely devoted to developing web browsers can compete with that.
If the iPhone gains an 80% market share, will the EU make them include another browser in their phone?
I doubt it too, since there isn’t another company out there solely devoted to developing web browsers. Also, they are clearly an also ran, at best. Just look at the numbers.
So I guess what’s astonishing is a browser company whose products only account for 2% of web usage can pull in over $80M a year.
So Safari and Chrome are also-rans …? Or are you being sarcastic while I’m being dense? Opera is the smallest browser in the PC market, but like I said, they’re not just in the PC space and whether or not they have many users shouldn’t exactly discount their pointing out that Microsoft is killing competition in the browser space. In fact, that they are marginal despite producing a good browser (that I personally find inferior to both Chrome and Firefox, mind) that’s faster and more light-weight than IE, with better security and better standards compliance and are still marginal in the marketplace sort of underscores their point.
Not that I think Opera is going to automagically conquer the world once Microsoft starts behaving according to European competition legislation.
Edit: Ah, if you look at that page you’re linking to, you’ll see that Opera appears to be bigger than Netfront, Blazer and Internet Explorer Pocket PC, implying it’s a leader in the handheld space. While that’s obviously small fry compared to the PC market, that’s where a lot of the growth is gonna happen as smartphones really reach the mainstream. Interesting to note that Opera Mini is way bigger than NetFront, the browser used in some Samsung, Sony-Ericsson and Nokia cell phones:
Opera Mini - 0.25%
Playstation - 0.03%
NetFront - 0.03%
Blazer - 0.01%
Microsoft Pocket Internet Explorer - 0.01%
Here’s more on why Opera Mini is significant. I don’t think Opera needs to compete in the PC market, they’re probably just giving away their browser for branding purposes and fighting Microsoft is a great way to earn publicity.
It does really well on WinMo since a lot of the new HTC phones have it built in. Pocket IE is a catastrophe.
Only if Apple abuse that market share or have used underhanded methods to gain that market share.
Things like, say, rejecting applications (on the only official channel for publishing applications for the platform) for reasons such as replicating the functionality the OS already supports and other anti-competitive and/or nebulous reasons?
Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying. A very low single-digit share of the market makes you an also-ran when there are multiple 800 lbs gorillas who own the market. Chrome’s eventual status is up in the air because of the fact that it is so relatively new, but for now, yeah Chrome and Safari are ‘also rans’. Period. EOD.
Opera is the smallest browser in the PC market, but like I said, they’re not just in the PC space and whether or not they have many users shouldn’t exactly discount their pointing out that Microsoft is killing competition in the browser space.
Microsoft being anti-competitive didn’t stop Firefox from taking a very large share of the market away from IE, so why should I believe it held Opera down any? Opera is held down primarily by the lingering perception that it costs money in a world where everyone thinks browsers should be free and I don’t see how this situation is Microsoft’s fault, they weren’t the first on the block with a free browser.
The vast majority of cases in which Microsoft gets blamed for being anti-competitive are actually cases of their competitors just being so incredibly incompetent. Firefox proves that a competitor can come into a market that Microsoft supposedly controls via OS bundling and grab a big chunk of it by actually being a superior choice. Maybe if Opera put half as much effort into making Opera a superior choice as they do whining to EU regulators like little girls they’d get more of the market.
Also, I don’t give a crap what the Wii and WinMo phones run, this thread isn’t about that, it is about the desktop version of Windows and browsers for it. A market in which Opera is very clearly an also ran.
…and this is where you prove you have no clue what the fuck you’re talking about. You like full page zoom? Integrated search fields? Saving browser sessions? Mouse gestures? Nevermind that Opera was actually improving their browser while Microsoft was twiddling it’s thumbs with IE6 for half a decade while still retaining 90% market share.
Only when browsing pages on my phone. On the desktop… nope, couldn’t care less.
Integrated search fields?
Nope
Saving browser sessions?
Nope
Mouse gestures?
Nope.
And to be clear I’m not saying these features are worthless, they just hold no appeal for me. Maybe Opera is the perfect browser for YOU, but that doesn’t make it a good browser for everyone.
Nevermind that Opera was actually improving their browser while Microsoft was twiddling it’s thumbs with IE6 for half a decade while still retaining 90% market share.
I guess they just didn’t implement stuff people cared about and/or didn’t market themselves properly. Again, I point to Firefox as proof that being unable to break a 2% marketshare says a lot more about Opera than it does about Microsoft.
But that’s not what you claimed. You claimed that Opera suffered from a lack of innovation, which is patently untrue. The innovations I listed was just the stuff Opera pioneered, they happily integrated stuff from other browsers as it came along unlike Microsoft and had a browser that was clearly superior to IE for years, yet Microsoft still remained ludicrously dominant. Opera pioneered a lot of innovation in the field, it’s clear they were lacking something to break through in the marketplace but innovation isn’t it. If you can’t even get the basic facts straight you’re not worth listening to.
Also, saying you don’t like integrated search fields? You mean you prefer going to google.com over just having a little google search field in your browser? Yeah. No.
Oh, but Kalle! You seem to forget that the market’s dictum is ineffable.
CCZ: So, the behaviour of different sectors in the technology market is irrelevant because we’re just discussing how inconvenienced poor old Microsoft is by EU competition regulation, due to the whining and snivelling of a Scandinavian software company who can’t market their product? No, wait, since they can’t bundle their browser with the bona-fide standard operating system for all x86-based computers, their share of the market should simply dwindle, showing all them innovators out there who seek to supply consumers with a wider range of choice that they should simply let things be the way they are.
You two are clearly ignoring the point of CCZ’s posts - Firefox proves that bundling is not Opera’s problem, that an innovative competitor can take market share and compete. The fact that Opera may have been first to get to a bunch of stuff means nothing.
And I hate integrated search boxes.
Oh the poor 800 pound gorilla, I feel so sorry for it.
Paul Thurrott is an idiot, though, so any point he stumbles upon (which I’m not saying he did, because, well, I didn’t read it) wins an automatic red-marker “ABA”. Please find supporting evidence from a domain lacking the words “super” or “nexus” :)
*answer by accident
If he’s supporting his point with bullshit then that doesn’t do much for his credibility.
Firefox proves that bundling is not Opera’s problem, that an innovative competitor can take market share and compete. The fact that Opera may have been first to get to a bunch of stuff means nothing.
Yes, Firefox is a successful example of what Opera wanted to be. And had Opera done things differently then maybe they could enjoy similar status. Or maybe they’d always be an also-ran. But to ignore the stifling effect that Microsoft’s bundling of IE had on competition among web browsers is disingenous. No one chose IE, but practically everyone used it. That one browser managed to succeed despite the monopoly doesn’t excuse the fact that the monopoly existed in the first place.
And I hate integrated search boxes.
Yes, but you’re horribly biased against innovation and ease-of-use. ;)
Saving sessions is a must have for me at this point. Same with Tabs. Everything else is meh.
What were they supposed to do? Not put a web browser in Windows? That would have had a hugely detrimental impact on the value of Windows as a modern OS. In modern OSes, users EXPECT there to be a built in default browser. Mac’s have Safari, most Linux distros ship with Firefox, etc.
I’m not saying Microsoft is a perfect company… they have done many things in the past which were pretty lame, but the MS issues people tend to focus on most are often the ones I have the least problem with. I think the fact that Windows comes with IE built in is WONDERFUL, even for people who only ever use it once (to download Firefox) and I think it is ridiculous to expect them to bundle other people’s browsers in the OS (regardless of how big their market share is) when true user choice is already just a click and a download away.
Also, Opera sucks donkey nutz.
Really. I would think it was wonderful if IE was a light-weight, fast standards-compliant browser without a bunch of bullshit synergy with Microsofts half-assed online presence and their over-priced productivity packages. Then I might actually use it.
As it is, it’s holding back the evolution of the web, it makes building web content a pain in the ass because you have to hack shit to get it to work properly in IE6, often ruining your performance in other browsers unless you hack some more. IE7 was a step in the right direction, IE8 more so, but it’s still the least user-friendly browser I’ve got installed. The only good thing about it is the opportunity to browse FTP servers via Explorer. Microsoft’s strategy of breaking their own sites for anyone not using IE shows just how interested they are in fair competition and a free web. IE is part of their vision of The Internet According to Microsoft. I don’t see how anyone could support that.
Microsoft doesn’t earn money on IE except for the tie-in with their web strategy, but really – why should I need to be caught in their net just because I’m a novice internet user? Why should my (only viable) choice of operating systems (since I’m using workflow apps like Adobe Creative Suite and 3ds Max, which are not available on Linux) dictate my experience with the web unless I educate myself to the point where I realize that I should be using Firefox, Chrome or Opera?
In fact, if Microsoft wants people to use their browser for anything except downloading a different browser, shouldn’t they start using their considerable development clout to build something that’s not bloatware, that can actually compete with other browsers in terms of speed and user-friendliness and then win the market over through sheer merit instead of simply shitting itself into people’s lives from a great height?