Minecraft! (single player dwarf fortress)

Imo, for progress/automation:

GTNH (1.7.10, GT), Divine Journey 2 (1.12.2, no GT), Sevtech Ages (1.12.2, no GT, its own thing), Enigmatica 2 Expert (1.12.2, no GT).

On the side you can try the newer stuff on 1.16.5, like Crucial 2, the Create pack linked above, or the TNP Limitless.

An important knowledge is the difference between expert and kitchen sink packs. “Expert” packs are those that change recipes to be “harder” (and grindier). It means for example that to make a simple chest you need some iron rather than just wood. By making the recipes harder the pack can force more automation and more complex chains, to make you work harder toward some goals. On the other hand this can be criticized because it can feel like an artificial extension, making you simply need lots of resources if not well designed.

“Kitchen sink” packs instead have a collection of mods, sometime still guided by quests, but where you decide what to do and when. Progress based packs “stage” your progression. So for example you need to get something from one mod, gating you the progress in a different one. Instead in kitchen sink packs you more or less create your non-linear progression. But it also means that without a planned progression you can stumble on something extremely powerful, and break the progression that makes some mods fun.

Okay, last question and I’ll stop hogging the thread:
How important is the base version of minecraft? You mention 1.7/1.12/1.16 - does that make something built on 1.16 “better” than something on 1.7, or is that rather immaterial to choosing based on modpacks desired?

Oh, I don’t really know.

Some people really dislike Minecraft past 1.12 so it’s also a choice to stay in earlier versions, but I don’t really know what exactly are the motivations and what’s different between these versions. Mods that grew complex and mature like GT6 ended up staying on 1.7.10 because it became a standard, and they’d require a radical rewrite. Same for the “best” version of Thaumcraft (there was a project to update Thaumcraft to 1.16, but it’s in limbo, and Thaumcraft is one of those mods without source code, they are known as “ARR”, standing for All Rights Reserved).

Basically every Minecraft version radically breaks mods, it’s not easy to update. So most of the classics stay on 1.7.10, and those that got updated are at 1.12.

1.16 is more like a fresh start. There are new modern mods that didn’t exist for previous versions, as well many mods that won’t be updated. Whereas most mods in 1.12 already exist in 1.7, they are just slightly different.

Now things are even more confused because up to this point all mods were based on “Forge”, the API that makes mods possible. Now there’s Forge and Fabric. And of course they aren’t compatible.

For example 1.16 has important mods that hugely improve performance, on Fabric: Sodium/Phosphor/Lithium.

So someone tried to port them on Forge, and we have: Magnesium/Sulfuric/RoadRunner (and Helium).

It’s a bit unclear the path things will take…

Clear as mud, but thanks for the info. Down the rabbit hole we go!

Complete Minecraft noob here. It appeared on Gamepass PC so I decided to try it, pretty addicting for sure. I’ve done some investigation as resource packs vs data packs vs mods get very confusing at first. I think I understand the difference between Java and Bedrock editions too. Should I just enjoy the base game and not concern myself with that other stuff or is it better to add some things in right at the beginning? I see things like Biomes O’Plenty and wonder if things like that I should get right away. I am mostly interested in survival/exploration type of gameplay. Is Forge still the way to mod the game even om Gamepass PC?

I couldn’t get Forge to work in the Gamepass launcher. Is it supposed to?

Hopefully someone here knows that answer.

I would, the base game has a certain charm to it, and I think it would be good to get a hang on the fundamentals of the game before you go down the rabbit hole. MC mods can be very drastic, so I think there is some value to enjoying the base game.

Hanacker you need the java version in order to play modded. I believe the Gamepass version is the Win10 executable

Didn’t they just add a new launcher for that to choose the version you want to play?

Just going from hazy recollection since I don’t have Gamepass.

The Java version used to be standalone, but a recent update changed it to go through the Xbox/Game Pass client. I’m using Java. Fabric works for mods but Forge was giving me an error I couldn’t figure out.

I think you might be able to redownload a standalone version, but that seemed like too much effort.

I wrote about Minecraft modpacks in the Factorio thread.

TL;DR
If you want to play modpacks (or vanilla Minecraft, since it lets you play all versions of the game from 1.0 including experimental ones, and won’t start hogging the Appdata folder in the system drive), download and use MultiMC. It will create standalone copies under a subdirectory named “instances”, with all the different versions you want to use. It downloads everything you need with a single click, and you can also manually configure it when needed.
https://multimc.org/

The only caveat is that recently Curseforge decided to destroy the community and it might close the API in the next few months. So MultiMC support might break.

I’ll add this:
the main difference with the base game is that modpacks sometimes come with big quest books. This means they guide you through all the progression, rather than having to discover things on your own in the sandbox. Some of the complex pack have 400 to 600 hours of content, the biggest ones like GT New Horizons up to 1000s of hours of content that is kept interesting and challenging.

This is what it looks like (it only doubled since I got this screenshot):

Agreed 100% with MultiMC while it still works. Makes installing modpacks basically a one-click operation, even if you don’t install every modpack ever created like HRose.

If you want to play with mods, I’d definitely favor a modpack over trying to go your own way (unless you just want a few small QoL things - but if you’re new like me it is hard to know even what those are). I’m personally stupid and trying to jump right into Omnifactory, but a more sane person would be highly encouraged to follow a path of FTB Academy → FTB University. The 1.12 versions are currently more ‘complete’ than the 1.16 versions.

If you are playing Omnifactory I keep reading on Discord that you should use the latest version rather then the outdated one on Curseforge.

You can retrieve the latest client zip from here, then import on MultiMC:

Yes, absolutely use the latest dev version. Another nice feature of MultiMC, as it makes importing a .zip just as easy as getting things from Curseforge.

So… as much as I like the idea of these mods, I’m not yet entirely convinced I want to play these mods. I can absolutely see why games like FortressCraft Evolved/Factorio/Satisfactory/Dyson Sphere Project have come about. Right now there is a LOT of busywork, and any actual ‘automation’ is a good way off. Whereas the other games focus on getting right to the automation so there is a lot less up-front repetition. Right now I’m spending all my time shuffling things about in chests/crates and into furnaces/crafting stations and it is silly tedious.

(insert gif of little girls ‘thinking about minecrafts mods vs playing minecraft mods’)

Yeah, I only play modded minecraft now, love the machines and automation, as well as some of the magic packs.

Are you saying I should keep going and it’ll get better?

Also - Minecraft is the first game in a loooong while that gives me a motion sick feeling (even with head bob off). WTF, this isn’t Warframe.

The reward mechanic in Minecraft (modded) is that you work very hard to get to some point, then you get there and unlock a number of new things and gameplay. That’s typical of the fun of tech trees, you expand your possibilities, see more things, get more toys to figure out and experiment with. With a large modpack you have so many different toys and a whole lot of freedom.

The other half of the exquisite reward feeling is that it’s not just unlocking new toys, but also access to certain tiers that immediately make everything you’ve done up to that point much easier. So it keeps changing. You get to work hard, but then you look back and have means to compress that path. So the hard work is compensated by something that escalates the scope.

But it depends what you want. For me the early game is the most fun across the whole genre. I enjoy learning how stuff works, especially if it’s well directed.

It depends a lot on the modpack, but Minecraft is not Factorio, so you have many different types of gameplay that make the experience less focused but richer. I don’t even know how it’s possible to get bored since it’s almost overwhelming all that it throws at you.

Even stuff I always considered shallow, like creating a nice place well decorated, it acquires a whole new dimension in Minecraft modded. Because if you have to spend a long time in this type of game then it makes sense to make it nicer. If decorating a house is the whole end goal, then I’m bored before even starting. But if it’s just incidental and working alongside other activities, then it acquires its purpose and contributes to the richer experience. I keep getting distracted by countless of sidetracks, and time flies.

Suggestion: before giving up try the Lost Era pack I linked above. After an introduction it opens up a number of alternate paths, giving you quests for everything. You get to experience the variety more directly (and it keeps the standard recipes, working with the classic version of GregTech).

P.S.
I played Omnifactory for a few hours to try it, but of course I picked the “self-torture” edition because it doesn’t give you the diamond hammers at the start, and I picked the standard overworld. I actually enjoy to start from nothing and work hard to get some crap tools. I enjoy to have that kind of long progression and rags to riches path. In fact I think that being able to get iron just a few minutes into the game is kind of shallow. I think GTNH has a much more complex and longer early game (I don’t think there’s any way to get iron, and you have to work with copper for a while).

In GT6 it’s very well designed (even better with Punch Me Not). If you punch a tree, you get hurt. Same if you punch the ground. So what you do is starting to walk around to explore a bit, and in the meantime you collect sticks and stones that you find everywhere. Different types of stone indicate the type of metals you’d find if you dig, so you don’t need any advanced scanner like Omnifactory. Then you get some gravel, take flint, and you can make some basic flint tools. It’s all layered meaningfully and makes the experience fun. It’s going fast that actually kills the feeling.

I understand the appeal, but since I skipped over the whole vanilla minecraft phase back in the day, Omnifactory is quite enough to jump into even if it isn’t quite the insanity of GTNH and the others :)