Always fascinating to me… this lecture was given at Tokyo University recently and translated yesterday.
http://www.video-fenky.com/features/miyamoto.html
–Dave
I had saved the page when you first posted it but didn’t get around to read it until now. It’s not really a lecture but rather an informal interview at a university. As usual, Miyamoto is rather vague on the status quo or on his current projects; the interesting bits are where he talks about the past. Choice quotes:
The game I made with all those extra boards was Donkey Kong, and I drew all the dot graphics for it […] Overall it took six or seven people to make the Donkey Kong game and hardware, and there were about six people on the Famicom too, I think. Once we all got a little bolder and hired on apprentice-type people, around the time of Super Mario Bros., I could just bring out the initial design and leave the rest to the apprentices. That ended up being the best way of all to make games. So by that time I was a director.
These days, a typical game takes about 20 or 30 main people and then another 20 or so support guys to create. People say that it takes three years to complete the software, but really, if you have 30 people and eight months, you can make the software. Zelda, though, takes more like a year. So what do we do with the other two years? Well, first there’re five of us who build the basic concept and project plan. I, along with an employee who serves as the director, get involved at this point, and for the next half year this plan gets solidified… then another half year, and so on, until the full design behind the project is decided upon. After that, eight months and that’s it.
Well, this is something that struck me at this year’s E3… but I’ve been to Japanese game expos in the past. And it’s been the same exact thing for 20 years, but for some reason the game industry always puts out the same stuff it’s released before at events like these. It’s totally normal for them to put out things that are the same as last time. American companies are definitely getting good at game creation, but to me it’s the exact same as last year. I wouldn’t let stuff like that pass. U.S. games from an era or two ago weren’t so well put together, but they were interesting because there was so much variety in what they made.
Right now Nintendo’s holding something like 800 billion yen in cash. Nintendo was ranked the highest among companies with cash back in the bubble days, but now other companies are getting the other end of the bubble and most of them are in bad trouble. Nintendo is not. That’s thanks to Yamauchi. Yamauchi always told us “Take the money you got from entertainment and put it right back into entertainment!” I’m really glad we didn’t go for a diversified strategy back then.
Games that tackle ideas never stimulated before, games that try to make people say “This is neat…”; those are the things I think have a chance of success. Those are what I give my okay to. […] In other words, project documents that start out with “If you did this and that to this other game, I think it would be really fun” are absolutely no good. Don’t tell me about that! Tell the person who made that other game about it! (laughs) That’s what I want to say to them.
But for the real test, I invite employees and their kids, and I look at their reaction. I let women or kids play and I watch them from behind. I don’t say anything; I just gauge their reactions. I may say to myself “Don’t do that!” or “Yeah, that’ll help you out later”, but I don’t open my mouth. That’s important because you can see whether children can deal with the controls, or whether they’re actually reading all the text as they play.
(I didn’t quote the whole lecture/interview, it’s really quite long!)
American companies are definitely getting good at game creation…
BURN
U.S. games from an era or two ago weren’t so well put together, but they were interesting because there was so much variety in what they made.
That’s exactly what I would’ve said about Japanese games. Patchy quality, great variety. Have I learned something about people today?
Only if you learned about yourself that you jump to conclusions too quickly. Miyamoto’s referring to past generations of console games, not PC games, where there’s certainly a lot of truth to that statement, though its curious he mentions variety…plus, he’s already said how impressed he is with some of the PC game creations in the States before. So get off your stupid assumptions that game quality in any way is dependent on where its created in any matter.
Anyway, Dave, do you know perhaps the original in Japanese? There was a link to it, but it was taken down for some reason.
-Kitsune
Like the conclusion you just jumped to about me? I know he’s speaking of console games.
So get off your stupid assumptions that game quality in any way is dependent on where its created in any matter.
Is this addressed to me or the most honourable Miyamoto who said it first? Don’t answer that, as I know by your insolent tone that you’re speaking to me. My post was merely about how people perceive things differently, and are more alike than we all realize. If you read between the lines, you can faintly make out the second verse of We Are The World being sung by ethnic children. You’re a little defensive.
:?
Uh huh. Whatever you say, bub.
-Kitsune
I love the information that windwaker took 8 months to write!
Well, 12 months with 5 people planning it and then 8 months with an additional 30 people directly on the game, and 20 in support.
Pay attention American game developers! Plan everything in advance THEN pile on the bodies. Not, as certain companies do pile on 45+ people for 2-3 years making up the game as they go, and never really committing to a final plan.
In the Austin/Dallas area alone I can think of at least 6 companies guilty of this sin right now. I’m just grateful I don’t work for any of them.
Industry Dwarf
Kitsune, I saw the original link at GAF and that’s where Fenegi also saw it after johntv turned him onto it and said it was a prime candidate for Video Fenky translation.
As for Fussbett’s comments, it’s pretty commonly accepted that many US developers simply follow what came before and improve on it. When taken in the context of the rest of the interview, you can understand what he’s getting at…
In other words, project documents that start out with “If you did this and that to this other game, I think it would be really fun” are absolutely no good. Don’t tell me about that! Tell the person who made that other game about it! (laughs) That’s what I want to say to them.
Now just stop and think for a moment. How many times do you see almost those exact words in a developer interview? How their game is like X but with Y added to it. Just about every press release you read lately sounds like that. Sure, you could blame it on marketing, but then you read interviews with the folks behind the games and they say the exact same thing. This isn’t just a US problem, it’s one that pervades the entire industry. Obviously, Miyamoto doesn’t like this method of game design. When the console industry in the US has been driven by this mentality for a long, long time (since the NES days), he’s certainly making a valid point.
–Dave
There’s only one reasonable interpretation of Fussbett’s statement, and it’s precisely the one he had to patiently explain to you.
Ironically the only reasonable interpretation of your embarassing little tantrum is that you “jump to conclusions too quickly”, and not only that, you jump to extremely hostile conclusions about posts that you perhaps don’t read English well enough to fully understand.
Wow…back off there, bub. The first guy posted “BURN” as his reply to the original article. If anyone was embarrassing, it was him.
–Dave
I will if you will.
If you regard it as necessarily a “problem,” then yes, it pervades the entire industry. I’m not sure I agree, but whatever.
I’m sure you meant to add the sentence, “It is equally valid that Japanese developers are guilty of the same thing, and Miyamoto meant to include them in his dismissive statements.”
Also, can I just salute Miyamoto’s groundbreaking method of watching kids play his games and deciding that way if they’re too difficult. MAN! I wish we could think of something like that here in the US. We should gather large groups of people in the targetted age group of a prospective release and do some sort of… oh, let’s call it “focus testing”… to determine whether the gameplay is working or not. I’m going to get started on this right away.
I love posting up these articles, because it always brings out the Miyamoto hate brigade.
–Dave
“BURN” is an accurate and humorous assessment of the statement that Americans are starting to get good at making games 30 years into the medium. Why on earth should he be embarrassed that he pointed that out?
Please explain your logic. (Looking forward to this one).
Miyamoto, Dave Long’s personal Jesus Christ.
Also, can I just salute Miyamoto’s groundbreaking method of watching kids play his games and deciding that way if they’re too difficult.
Perhaps he should have taken his own advice. One of the most common criticisms of Super Mario Sunshine is that it’s extremely frustrating-- eg, the sentiment that “thank God I don’t have to do that again.” Even worse, it allows you to enter areas that you have no chance of completing because you don’t have the right accessory for your water gun.
Pretty goddamn weak coming from the nipponese game design mastarr.
Er, what? His explanation doesn’t make much sense. It seems he was angry at Miyamoto’s statement, made his own counter statement and that cocked up that bullshit to defuse the situation. I’m not that naive.
And what is this about all American development? Its an accurate assessment of how things were in previous console generations, especially 8-bit and 16-bit. Its people like you and him who stretch out Miyamoto’s comments to be this hideous things he’s not saying. No, he’s not the be-all, end-all designer, but I’m so sick and tired of people who’d love to find something to bitch about, when there’s really not much you can offer an argument for that says he’s near that unreasonable-thinking a guy.
It’s obvious to anyone who analyzes the industry that by FAR the greater amount of talent previously was located in the PC sector for Americans. There just isn’t the Wastelands, and Elites, and DOOMs, and Tie Fighters, and Monkey Islands, and Fallout, and System Shocks, and Populouses on the consoles. It was much more rare that those standouts happened on consoles, just as the greater amount of talent in Japan resides on consoles rather than PCs. Its a simple observation. This is not to say there were no exceptions, but really many of them are also PC ports, such as Wizardry, Bard’s Tale, Out of this World, Flashback or done by very talented PC guys like those guys who dids Gods or Blizzard’s Rock & Roll Racing and The Lost Vikings. These days, its beginning to be a lot more equal. And partially because some groups have improved a lot (I don’t think Splinter Cell’s team is made up of PC veterans, is it? Nor the guys who did Mark of Kri, Ratchet & Clank, Project BG&E or Rayman.) And some of it is because Xbox is attracting that talent or its getting drawn to consoles in some ways, as in Halo, Fable, Morrowind or Metroid Prime.
But no, because of course Miyamoto has to be a xenophobic, self-absorbed Japanese who can’t see talent outside his own race. What was I thinking? OF COURSE he’s an arrogant American-hating git, why else would such a very unassuming, candid and humble guy who has shown his common sense through a career of such speeches say such things? It MUST be that. Why on EARTH would he think that, when he’s worked with Americans quite a bit in the past and has never shown a tendency to think like that?
That’s jumping to conclusions, that’s your own ass-backwards assumptions working. Its getting really old and tired, has no basis in reality and is rude beyond mentioning when you have to stoop to some tired cultural cliche to discredit a nice guy who’s never shown any signs of that kind of behavior. I usually just ignore these displays of ignorance, but this time I decided to speak up. Its painfully clear that few of you really know what he’s even involved in these days with your statements about Mario Sunshine and Zelda anyway.
-Kitsune
Even worse, it allows you to enter areas that you have no chance of completing because you don’t have the right accessory for your water gun.
No it doesn’t.
There is no AREA that does not have some goal you can accomplish no matter what your backpack is. There are items in each area that you cannot get until you get different accessories, but you obtain those by completing the earlier goals in that level.
Do you also complain that you could just fight the end boss in Castlevania IF ONLY Konami hadn’t “ripped you off” by not giving you a super-jump right away? :roll:
His statement didn’t need any explanation. His explanation only clarified what is implicit in the original post. There’s nothing whatsoever “angry” in Fussbett’s post. It’s the fact that you’re so angry (who knows at what, and frankly…who gives a shit) that makes you interpret it that way.
Its people like you and him who stretch out Miyamoto’s comments to be this hideous things he’s not saying.
That’s an accurate description of your behavior on this thread in regards to Fussbett’s post. Neither he nor I have “stretched out” Miyamoto’s comments. In fact I haven’t said anything about them at all. I found them interesting and enjoyable to read. That you’ve leapt to the conclusion that Fussbett and I hate Miyamoto is just another manifestation of the rot that lives in your own heart.
I’m so sick and tired of people who’d love to find something to bitch about,
You’re offering up an incisive critique of yourself. It’s quite interesting from a psychological perspective.
But no, because of course Miyamoto has to be a xenophobic, self-absorbed Japanese who can’t see talent outside his own race.
Fussbett never said anything of the sort. Rather he pointed out that we all have a tendency to think that maybe our work is a little better than the other guy’s. It’s called “Human Nature.”
That’s jumping to conclusions, that’s your own ass-backwards assumptions working. Its getting really old and tired, has no basis in reality and is rude beyond mentioning
Rude beyond mentioning? You’re the very definition of it.
Right, so ring me up whenever you want to discuss the points I’ve made instead of flinging back baseless comments as if that makes them true. Until you have a smart reply that’s a little better that simply saying, “No, you are!”, I don’t see any point in continuing to discuss anything with you. I obviously didn’t say you outright hate Miyamoto or imply it, but that you have to put words in my mouth to sound reasonable says everything I need to know about you.
-Kitsune
Certainly the only way you would sound reasonable is if someone else put words in your mouth. I merely quoted you, however. It’s amusing that you think you’ve made some “points” that need rebutting.