Mobo QVLs: how critical is it to follow the list?

Hardware and technical stuff
1

I’m out shopping for a new motherboard/CPU/RAM. I started looking at the Asus P5Q as a good place to start since it matches most/all of what I’d want (I’ll be putting in a Core2Quad CPU). I’m avoiding SLI and Crossfire because I’m unlikely to go that route (considering that I’ve had a SLI board for years and never used it). So, this mobo allows up to 16 GB dual-channel DDR2, which is what I want because I intended to get 4 GB modules (2x to start). Unfortunately, the QVL doesn’t list any 4 GB modules (dual-channel or otherwise) other than two Samsung modules (a DDR2 800 and DDR2 667 one). Admittedly, I’m not an expert at creating mobo/memory configurations, but I’m wondering if there’s a reason that they’d have a 16 GB advertised but have practically nothing that they “qualify” as being able to make up 16 GB in dual-channel mode? I feel like I’m missing a clue to how these configurations should go. Can I just ignore the list and get something that works? Although, I have to admit that finding 4GB modules is tough (I’m in Canada, if that makes a difference).

On the otherhand, perhaps I should ask for advice on a mobo that supports up to 16 GB DDR2 in dual-channel and has a selection of good 4 GB modules that are “qualified”. Is looking for future-proofing the system up to 16 GB asking too much right now? I like it to last about 3 years before doing mobo/CPU/RAM upgrades.

2

This state of affairs is known as “headroom for growth.”

The 4GB modules are coming, but just not cost effective yet. The real question is whether or not they’ll be DDR3 rather than DDR2. I heard one memory industry exec say that 4GB modules will be the crossover point for DDR3 going mainstream on desktops. But I suspect that was more wishful thinking.

3

Would you recommend a DDR3 board, then, if I plan on having 4GB modules paired up to 16GB during the life of the mobo? What I want right now is to have 8GB RAM as a starting point after the upgrade with a doubling at the 2 year point without having to replace the modules in the mobo. But…a previous suggestion on Qt3 was that there weren’t even any 4GB DDR3 modules to be had, and that they were overpriced when DDR2 is so cheap and plentiful.

Perhaps I’m asking for too much at this point and should just go for 4GB with a jump to 8GB 2 years forward and not worry over 16GB unless I really need it (in which case I could do the module replacement; I hate waste is all).

4

It’s hard to say. Right now, it’s hard to find 4GB kits that are reasonably priced in any technology, and DDR3 4GB modules seem to be nonexistent. What I’m doing currently is run 2 x 1GB + 2 x 2GB DDR3-1600, but running them at DDR3-1333 speeds. The system is stable, and I’ve got 6GB under Vista 64 for the time being. Of course, I’m running an X38 board that maxes out at 8GB.

5

I’ve built dozens of computers over the years for myself (work/personal), family and friends and I’ve never once bothered to look at the list of qualified memory for any motherboard I’ve used. I’ve only had one situation where a stick of RAM didn’t work when I got everything set up and this was due to a problem with the motherboard’s BIOS that was quickly dealt with by updating to the newest BIOS rev.

So my completely non-scientific and anecdotal evidence says you shouldn’t worry too much about the QVL.

6

Newegg is offering 2 x 4GB DDR2 800 RAM for $221 and 4 x 4GB for $396; currently out of stock, but that’s far cheaper than any other 4GB modules I’ve seen.

7

Thanks, unbongwah, but Newegg doesn’t do international shipments (that’s why I mentioned I was in Canada). However, that’s also why I asked about the QVL, because those modules aren’t on the QVL. I don’t know how important it is to follow the QVL when it comes to RAM/mobo combos. I don’t think the RAM in my current system (OCZ Platinum PC3200 DDR400 4x 1 GB) was on the QVL for my mobo (Asus A8N-SLi Premium), either, and they’ve worked fine.

I’ll have to keep looking at the DDR2 vs. DDR3 and the availability of 4GB modules for a bit. I’m aiming to have my new system up and running within the next 4-6 weeks, so I think I’m pretty much stuck with whatever is out there right now.

8

Equisilus: What city are you in? If you’re in Edmonton or Calgary, MemoryExpress.com is good.

Otherwise, buy from NCIX.com and use their handy pricematch feature to pricematch NCIX’s own sister companies, 1 of which will have the cheapest price:
directcanada.com, tddirect.ca, nxsource.com, memoryhouse.com

9

Thanks, rei. I’m on the east coast and I have been looking at NCIX.com as well as TigerDirect.ca for pricing/availability.

I don’t seem to recall having this much trouble last build, but maybe I wasn’t so picky.

10

CanadaComputers.com, esng.ca and infonec.ca are the other 3 big Canadian etailers. If you order from out of province you don’t get dinged PST for that province. Dunno if you are dinged your own’s though since we don’t have PST in AB.

11

Really, build what you will use for the next 2 years. There’s no point ‘future proofing’ and DDR3 is ridiculously overpriced right now. You will be set if you get 4-8 GB, only 3 of which will only be used in 32-bit right now since 64-bit isn’t quite 100% yet since there are some games/drivers/devices that barely have 32-bit Vista support.

12

Oops! Sorry, I thought Newegg Canada was open for business already - my bad.

However, that’s also why I asked about the QVL, because those modules aren’t on the QVL.

AFAIK, the QVL simply lists those DIMMs which the MB manufacturer has tested and certified as being compatible; it’s certainly not an exhaustive listing. In my experience, as long as you buy good-quality RAM whose specs match what your MB supports (i.e., voltage, bus speed, timings, etc.), you’re good to go. But of course, YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.

I’ll have to keep looking at the DDR2 vs. DDR3 and the availability of 4GB modules for a bit.

I still don’t think DDR3 is worth the extra expense right now. I also think 16GB is way overkill, especially since so few 64-bit apps are available: 32-bit apps can only use 2GB per app, IIRC, so all that extra RAM just goes to the OS or other apps; it really only makes sense if you do heavy multi-tasking or want a huge disk cache in RAM. EDIT: and obviously, you need a 64-bit OS to use more than ~3GB in the first place. I suspect by the time you want more than 8GB, you’ll be ready to upgrade your whole system.

13

I still don’t think DDR3 is worth the extra expense right now. I also think 16GB is way overkill, especially since so few 64-bit apps are available: 32-bit apps can only use 2GB per app, IIRC, so all that extra RAM just goes to the OS or other apps; it really only makes sense if you do heavy multi-tasking or want a huge disk cache in RAM. EDIT: and obviously, you need a 64-bit OS to use more than ~3GB in the first place. I suspect by the time you want more than 8GB, you’ll be ready to upgrade your whole system.

Future proofing to me is making it last 2-3 years. ;) I’ve been using Vista Ultimate x64 since Spring/Summer 2007 and I’m already at 4 GB in my current system. I understand that apps aren’t up to using that much quite yet, but I look at my current system as a guide. I built it with 2 GB back in 2005 and that did me well all the way through to earlier this year (2+ years) before I decided to push to 4 GB (the max for this mobo). People said exactly the same sort of thing about me getting 2 GB back in 2005 (there’s no need, etc) yet at the two year point most everyone was going with 2 GB or more in any new machines. So, I figure if I go with 8 GB now, it’ll last me 2+ years again without having to upgrade but I have that extra room to go to 16 GB (2x4GB added) if I wanted to do so.

AFAIK, the QVL simply lists those DIMMs which the MB manufacturer has tested and certified as being compatible; it’s certainly not an exhaustive listing. In my experience, as long as you buy good-quality RAM whose specs match what your MB supports (i.e., voltage, bus speed, timings, etc.), you’re good to go. But of course, YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.

That’s what I was thinking, but I was looking for some confirmation that it’s the way most people build their systems. As I mentioned above, I know I didn’t go with the QVL for my last build, and things worked okay for the most part. Well, until I stuck in the last 2 GB and sound issues cropped up, but that’s a mobo/Creative issue, apparently.

Thanks for the heads-up! I’m definitely going to keep an eye on it as I’ve been waiting for Newegg to pop up in Canada for a while, especially since everyone talks about it around here so often. Nice to get some extra competition. And thanks for the other etailer names, rei. I’ll check them out.

14

ncix is the 800lb equivalent of newegg in canada though. i like their prices (once pricematched) and their service. always pay the extra % for express rma if you are building parts/system.

15

Yeah, actually I’m shocked by the price of the Core2Quad Q9550 at NCIX compared to the same at TigerDirect. That’s $300.00 difference! I’ve got to think the TigerDirect one is a mistake. Essentially, anything I find at TigerDirect, I find cheaper at NCIX. Too bad, really, as I can collect Air Miles and get cash back x4 on purchases through TigerDirect. I’d rather save the money, though. Regardless, I think I’m settling on what I plan on getting:

Core2Quad Q9550
Asus P5Q Deluxe
OCZ Reaper Hpc Edition PC2-8500 DDR2 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-1066 CL5-5-5-15 Dual Channel EPP Memory Kit (I think the timings may be wrong; OCZ lists them as 5-5-5-18)

I think I’d be satisfied with that, and the combo isn’t expensive. I plan on picking up a new HD to go with it (since I have to put a new Vista x64 on anyway) and that’ll be it. Ordering today since I want to get the rebate on the RAM.

16

shopbot.ca and pricebat.ca are useful too.

17

Hope you got your nearly $20 off the P5Q Deluxe by pricematching NCIX with their sister store at TDDirect.ca: http://www.tddirect.ca/products/177257/ASUS/P5Q_Deluxe/
Your RAM is $12.95 cheaper at DirectCanada for example. The savings alone will pay for ExpressRMA insurance. NCIX will pricematch without hassle usually same-day (mine occurred at 9PM the day I ordered) because they are all sister companies.

Not sure how, if any delay (if it goes into next day before you order for example, worst case) affects your rebate status though.

ALSO: ncix prices will be lower if you are logged in. ensure you use ‘advanced search’ on their page since sometimes it logs you out accidentally while adding stuff to your shopping cart.

18

Thanks for all the tips, rei. I’ve placed the order and managed to find about $80 in price matching. I’m usually not much of a shop-around kind of person, but it was easy enough to do. If they don’t get the matches, or if I don’t get the rebate on the RAM because of the delay, I’m not terribly worried. (Yep, I was logged in the entire time.)

I think it’s good that I just stopped myself from doing too much more research (time = money, too). I’ll be happy with what I got for quite a while and can focus on other things for the next year or so before I do any more upgrading.