More AoE III

Ok, I relaised I missed the boat on this one. Had it been a month or more ago, Id have plenty of threads on this game. If we can have 100 WoW threads, a few more AoE III ones cant hurt.

The guide that game with my game has a complete lack of unit descriptions. I having a very hard time of knowing what units are good against what other units.

For example, I am playing the Otto’s and the other night I was fighting a french dude who had a huge army of heavy royal calvary. I have no pike men, so I had no idea what the counter was. I thought it was Anbus guns, but they died horrably. Jans did no better, calv archers did better, but still got spanked.

I got onto the ESO online chats and the responses were totally contradictory. Some people say Anbus guns, and others would stay that was totally wrong…

Does anyone know of an online resource that has all this information? I did some google searches and only came up with a few forums, none of them with much detail information.

The tool tips on units need to be looked at. Some will say, this unit is good against infantry. Others have no such designation. I like the RoN model (Empire at war did a rudementry system too) where it says this unit counters X, Y and Z, but is countered by A, B, and C. IE: Anbus guns. I have no idea what the purpose of this unit is. There is nothing I have seen that describes it, yet right next to it is the grenader who says good against infantry and buildings.

How do Ottos turn off villager production? Near the end of one game I just wanted a huge army and I kept having to kill pesants, which were quckly replaced by 2 town centers with all the ugrades.

Anyway… Now that I have problems / gripes about the ESO UI.

The frist thing I did was try and get into conscript games (thats the starting rank). So id join and the guy would have a level 55 home city. How can you be a conscript with a 55 home city? Lots of times id join low ranked games only to have people with rediculous high ranked cities. I am talking about the guy who started the game, not the others who joined.

When you sort by rank, it sorts the list alphabetically. This makes no sense. You should sort it by rank, aka conscript is either on the top or bottom, but not after Admiral (or whatever the higher rank, but starting with a lower level rank is). Also people might not know that a major is a lower rank then a colonel, it would greatly help if this list was sorted by actual rank and not alphabetically.

I want an option to filter by player rank as well as home city rank.

The current filter options are somewhat broken. If I tell it to only show games that I am elledgable for, It shows me like 6 games. If I do not check that, I get a huge list. I can join far more then 6 games from that list.

The games list needs to auto referesh every few seconds or so. When you select a game, it should refesh that instant. Its annoying to keep picking games that have 2 of 4 players and then get “this game is full” when you try and join them.

You need to have switchs to turn off clan invites and game invites. I was trying to talk to people in chat and was bombarded by these things. It was very annoying.

It would be nice to have an XP chart for home cities. IE: How much left to get to the next rank and how much for the next few ranks in progression.

Is anyone else here playing AoE III online reguarly? Natus has been a total no-show all week.

I don’t play aoe 3 regularly but I wouldn’t mind a match with someone from here. I think you fought the french unique calvary, which is the most powerful horse unit in the game. Supposely the jannis or the horse archers are the anti calvary, I liked the unique otto unit you can only get thru shipments. In order to stop production the only real way is to not purchase the settler limit research in the temple. Problem is I think it only goes in 20 increments, so you go from 20 settler limit to 40.

Next time Ill just the rally point deep in the enemy base.

In terms of balance, from what I’ve seen and read,

Melee beats anything , as long as they get into attack range
Range beats melee as long as they stay away from melee.
Calvary beats range and artellery, and can beat other calvary.
Arterllery beats infantry, as long as they’re not in point blank range. Other arterllery and buildings.

The abus gun is pretty much anti infantry artellery, sucks against buildings. Also it was given a pretty big range nerf last patch, before it could pretty much snipe enemy units without being attacked, much like skmishers. Now it’s easier to take them down. I agree about ottomans, they need an infantry or perhaps arterllery anti calvary. Also I’ve read stories about mass french calvary dominating over everything else.

SORRY! I should have PMed you last night! I was waiting for you to contact me!

In my abject contrition, here are some strategy links that should keep you happy and well-fed for a while. AoE3 Heaven is my personal preference, but they are all very good:

Regarding some of your complaints…

The French cuirassiers are considered OP. Jans do fine againt cav up to a point, and then get massacred. It’s a bad match-up. Cav archers don’t do as well as they should against horse, and several forumers are arguing with ES about this vociferously.

I don’t know how to turn off Turkish villie production. How odd…

DeepT, I always use the Quick Search feature for online games, within 5 levels of my Home City. Sure, I get spanked pretty soundly, but generally, they are good match-ups. Try that if you haven’t already.

I don’t think you CAN turn off Villie production. That was part of the challenge of playing Ottoman I thought.

I’m no AoEIII l33tster, but I always thought that the counter-balance to the French Cuirasser (or however you spell it) was that they were pretty expensive to produce in large quantities. So hey, if you just let him gather resources unmolested, then he’s obviously going to have enough cash to produce them in pants-wetting numbers.

I reinstalled this a few nights ago, it seems to run better than I remember. I wouldn’t mind getting in a few games with people here, but as a fair warning, I suck really bad. But as long as I get my city leveled up I could really care less. I go by SuperHiro on ESO.

Now, if we were playing DoW, I could put up a pretty good fight. Oh wait, I play Ork.

So no counter unit suggestions then? It was a good thing he never attacked me. He would just send out the armada of doom each time I attacked him, wipe my troops and then go back and hide. I ended up getting mortar ships to put a hurting on his home city. Even those mortar bombars didnt do jack to the calvary.

I the big cannon the ottos get did decently against them although they would just run up and whack them. I suppose I could have done some kind of wall creep to get close to his base and to keep my bombards safe

Anyway Natus, or anyone else, if you see me on xfire or ESO message me. I am “TheSilverHammer” on both.

I found a link on one of those that gave unit descriptions. The ottos only have one anti-calv unit, the calv-archer, although just be the numbers Jans might not be to bad (less pop and much less resoruces to make).

I am not sure where anbus guys fit in, they are marked anti-infantry, but so are grenders who do a lot of damage and aoe too vs infantry. Hmm… At least its a start.

Grenaders are better against buildings then they are against infantry, unless there are alot of them in close quarters. It would be easier to pm me here for times good to meet online, since I’m playing a bunch of other games as well.

Musketmen/Jannisaries are multipurpose units. They can beat both cavalry and melee infantry. Their ranged attacks are equally effective/ineffective, depending on how you look at things. This means that they haven’t got a clear cut “role”; you can use them in all sorts of situations combined with other units. But used alone, they simply can be defeated by a less flexible but more efficient “counter unit”

Artillery is the most effective counter to massed troops. Skirmishers are especially vulnerable. Artillery “beat” infantry. Infantry beat Cavalry. Cavalry beat Artillery. However there are plenty of exceptions, since none of the civs (except, perhaps, the British) have 100% standard units. Most civs are missing one unit line and have gained an improved line in their unique unit.

Skirmishers are helpless vs. cavalry but are particularly effective vs. musketmen/melee infantry at range. They are fast enough to “dance” around melee units (fire, retreat, fire, retreat, ect)

Not all cavalry is made the same! Hussars are general purpose cavalry like the Musketeer is a general purpose infantry unit. In keeping with the historic period, Hussars are not knights that can wade into enemy units with impunity. They tend to take heavy casualties when committed. But they are especially good against ranged units like Crossbows, Skirmishers, and Cannon. They’re also an effective raiding unit. The Cossack is a cheaper Russian Hussar. The Oprichnick is a cavalry unit that kills peasants and buildings extremely well. The Uhlan is a Hussar that trades hit points for attack. The Spanish Lancer does extra damage to infantry. The Cuirassier is a powerful unit that has no specific role but does a big area of effect “attack”, like the upgraded Cataphract of the Age of Kings expansion. They’re so tough because they’re doing 2-3x their listed value in damage to your army, even if they can’t kill an individual unit 1on1 any better then another unit. Even units that ‘counter’ cavalry, like Pikemen, tend to die easily to the mass aoe attack of the Cuirassier. It’s only weakness is it’s cost.

Crossbows are the 2nd age counter to Musketmen. They are expensive in wood, which limits their production and hobbles the player producing them. Otherwise they are a slower, weaker, version of the Skirmisher.

Grenadiers are good vs. mass infantry but tend to die. They’re important for two reason; they do Area of Effect damage (good against massed Skirmishers) and they take less damage vs. ranged units. So they can “tank” for your other ranged units. They are rather helpless vs. melee (either infantry or cav).

Abus Guns look like infantry but think of them like a mobile, non-aoe artillery piece. They are not a normal infantry unit. They are specialized artillery that can kill infantry very effectively (with a huge attack). Think of them like a Grenadier, except they do less damage vs. buildings, have fewer hitpoints and no aoe damage, but concentrate all their damage into one big attack. You have to guard them like artillery, although their attack is big enough they can defend vs. cavalry if they’ve got some Janns around.

To beat cavalry as the Ottomans, set some of your Janns to melee mode. The key here is that they have a good bonus in melee vs. cavalry. But to use it, they have to, you know, fight in melee. If left to default only the Jann being attacked will use melee weapons.

Pikemen and Halbediers have a fairly decent attack with a good bonus vs. cavalry. Rodelleros are, rather oddly, despite their appearance, an anti-cavalry unit (their trick is speed). That German melee unit (whose name i’ve forgotten) is also anti-cav, and it also does area of effect damage in melee. So it just dominates melee cavalry.

Ranged cavalry counter other cavalry. They tend to be almost useless in virtually every other role per the cost. I guess you could say they do well vs. melee infantry.

Ok, I have heard about these bonsus and multipliers. However I can not find any information on them. IE: You say Jans have a bonus vs infantry and calvary in melee mode. I have looked at the in-game stuff and a few web sites that give statistics. None of them said anything about bonuses. This really irritates me that the game manual has no information like this. Infact it doesn’t have a detailed tech analysis of each civ (yes I know there is quick reference chart). For example, I got a card that will unlock super-secret ottoman stuff from the temple. What stuff? Do Anbus guns get a bonus vs anything? I have no idea.

Is AoE III moddable? I do not think they went far enough with the home city concept. I think they should have made some powers like ‘general powers’ for C&C Generals. That is to say, a dramatic effect, not some piddly 10% bonus. I want to make my own cards, some of which really allow you to focus your civ. IE: You want to focus on artillery? How about a card that increases the range of all artillery by 50%? How about a logistical focus? All unit pop cost is reduced by 1, but they can’t go below 1, except for villagers which become 1/2. Infantry? You get 2 infantry for the price of one.

Of course these cards would need to have an addtional ‘deck’ cost. Maybe the Logisitcs card costs 3 deck slots, and the artillery one 2 deck slots.

The secret ottoman stuff are, a shipment of I think 15 jannis, and in age 4 you can pay to ship 2 great bombards. I think it’s 1000wood for jann 1000 gold for bombard.

Wow! 15 Jans and 2 great bombards? My god! such power! The armies of the world will fall before my might!

Oh wait… that is totally unimpressive.

Especially considering the recent nerfs to jannis. Now the great bombards can be of use, I scared an invading army away using a great bombard.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention the dutch secret temple research gets them unlockables for 30 musketeers, lower movement speed of units for +1 bank, and I think something to do cavlary

Planning on a couple of games tonight with people from BC. Anyone want to join in? We all suck.

Well you have my nick, you can always message me. Natus was ‘online’ all night, but never responded to tells.

I think my intrest in this game is beginning to wane already, which is pretty sad since I have only been playing it a week. Too many things are already eating at me about this game. I think tomorrow Ill install galatic civ 2 and hopefully that will keep me until RoL comes out, or at the very least I can get BFME2 since everyone seems to like it.

I’m always online, but was out. What ‘tells’ are you talking about?

That’s too bad. You’re going the way of Tom Chick, and though I can’t blame you, I wonder why I’m so captivated by it. I’ll be around most of tomorrow and Sunday if you want to have one last go. I’ve been reading all your critiques of the game, but haven’t really understood what isn’t working for you. There’s a lot under the hood, yes; but not that much. Maybe it’s the difference between BfME2 and AoE3 people. Ha!

I don’t have your nick DeepT. I tried searching for DeepT about three hours ago, but no go. Anyway, done for the night, but hope to play you another day.

Oh online its TheSilverHammer. What is your online nick there Natus? Isnt it Natusm? You can message me you know.

I am not sure why I am getting tired of AoE III so fast. Its very pretty, but it really doesn’t bring anything new to the RTS game table. The home cites do very little for you. Its almost just a few free units. The tech ugrades are never anythign serious. You might as well just build a vault of secret treasures that has 20 things in it you can decide.

It also irritates me to no end you need to ‘level up’ your home city. Who thought this was a good idea? Ok, so now I can’t just compete with some people because they have a level 70 home city with all the fixings. I need to grind 100s of games to get to that point. Sorry, this was just a bad idea. If the levels did not effect game play, then ok, fine. But saying someone can get 4 villages when I can get too, just because they played 100 more games then me is totally bogus.

The only saving grace he is that the home city advantages are so feeble that it only matters a little. That in itself is also a bad thing, they are so minor they do not really bring any really new gameplay elements to the table. Its like saying in any other RTS game, one time during each game, you can get some free units. Does that really change the fundemental gameplay? No, not really.

Its not a bad game overall. Its simply “been there, done that”. Actually they could change the game significantly and favorably with some things on the scale of small patches. Remove city levels (except for cosmetics if you want), and completly rething the cards and make each one very very significant. Cards should be some significant super power you do only once or some extereemly influentail ability you gain for the session. If this were AoM, that would be on the scale of having Thoth (sp?) Metor strike as a one time use card or if it were a unit card, it might summon the Spanish armada on a naval map, or maybe even “The indian war card” which causes every indian village on the map, allied or not to spawn 20 warriors who group up and attack one player (not under your direct controll). These are sigificant, but a card that says, your villages gain 10% more food from hunted animals is really lame. You want an upgrade? Your villages are trained by master indian scouts, they now gain +100% gather rate from animals. That is a signifcant card, the former isn’t.

I agree those 10% increase cards aren’t really worth the effort. Considering you could use that spot for either villagers, units, or even resources, and by the time you see any positive effect from them your already in trouble.

If you read the tech trees you see that the lvl 25 cards can be very powerful, like giving more money and cheaper banks for dutch. Or manors spawn free settlers for british players. So the problem is if I’m lvl 24 and I’m fighting a lvl 25 guy with one of these cards there is no contest that I’m at a major disadvantage before I start.

My other problem is with the lack of strategy in the game, the game feels like one giant build queue to me. All the matches I’ve won weren’t because I have more skill or better strategy. But because I did the build routine better, or understood how many settlers you need at once.

Now instead of rushing the new favorite strategy is fast teching to age 3 and just dominating with your age 3 cards. I lost a battle just because the guy pulled a mercanary card at the last minute with no other units out, now where is the strategy in that?