Demon’s Souls
Spelunky
Norm Koger’s Total Art of War had a pretty steep learning curve even by wargame standards, but was a pretty good game once you got the hang od it and avoided scenarios with too many jeeps.
The Crusader Kings series has a pretty potent learning curve even if you can play and not know what you are doing right off the bat… but it’s worth it.
Erm spacechem. That game makes my brain hurt a lot, but I love it when a plan comes together.
Going to chime in with Victoria, I swear that game took a lot of headache before I got even close to know what I was doing.
I’ve tested Dwarven Fortress, and I think its more a battle against an ascii interface than understanding underlying concepts.
Space Rangers 2 has got to be mentioned. That thread on this forum was my introduction to Qt3.
One of the many common misunderstandings of df. Below is a flow hart of just the basics not even any of the cool stuff. Unlike most games the main reward in df is the emmirgent stuff as well as a plan coming together.
Surprised everyone is going for the “complex strategy or simulation game”. Another clear option would be games like Quake 3 or Tribes, which need several thousands of hours to reach the highest skill ceiling.
I don’t think twitch style skill is a learning curve. I understand most FPS games within an hour, but i will never be good at them even after 10,000 hours.
Whereas something like the EU series for me took months to just understand, but when i did it just clicked and love the series now.
Any game that need the control pad. I have no idea how to use that thing.
The X serie, supposedly theres a game beyond the hard surface where I bounce. Probably most realistic air simulators where taking off is really hard.
Ok, It sounds like I should revisit Gothic 1, AI War and Space Rangers 2, as I probably didn’t give them enough time.
X3 I own, and will most probably be my next time-sink after Gothic 2.
I’ll definitely be picking up Dwarf Fortress, but which Victoria should a noob start with, 1 or 2?
Thanks again for all the input!
Nobody here recommended Victoria 2.
Twitch/execution games can also have a high learning/strategic curve as well.
i’d have to say Dominions 3.
Railroad Tycoon III
It had a very deep economic system that goes far beyond just building trains.
One thing to keep in mind is the campaign in 2070 is actually terrible for teaching you the basics, as it keeps some parts of the game locked away until later missions. I found that I had an easier time getting started by trying the global events missions (the current one is about the Tycoons) or the basic stand alone missions. For some odd reason EVE is much more helpful in those missions.
Besides Dwarf Fortress (NOT Dwarven Fortress /nerd rage) and Dominions 3, which have already been mentioned, I’d say Gary Grigsby’s War in the East. It’s not just that the learning curve is high (you can actually jump in and start playing without too many preparations), but the game is just overwhelming. The manual is over 400 pages long, and not very well written and organized in my opinion. The sheer number of units to keep track of, as well as just figuring out which one to move first, can be quite overwhelming, too. Add to that a bunch of mechanics which aren’t totally necessary to know, but figuring that out may take a while.
In the end, though, it’s very rewarding, and you do get an excellent sense of some of the difficult choices the historical commanders were faced with.
Well Hearts of Iron 3 with expansions installed is no breeze either then, even if the mechanics are
easier than Victoria. Gary Grigsby’s game is more complex because of the hidden number game imho
According to Malcolm Gladwell you would! (reference = Tipping Point)
But actually, I feel the same.
If you’re going to play Dwarf Fortress get Calistas’ book!
I’m glad someone mentioned SpaceChem. It absolutely qualifies. It’s like building Rube Goldberg machines. So satisfying when they work.
Beyond those, the most complex games I play are probably the Anno games, which someone else has already mentioned. Dawn of Discovery/1404 is the best; 2070 is a very generous game (and more complex), but I think the core mechanics just don’t fit the future setting as well.
Along those lines, I’ll also recommend Settlers 7. The main concepts are pretty basic for resource management games, but actually getting your kingdom to run like a well oiled machine takes a number of tries and a lot of digging in to the weeds. But then the competitive goals with several ways to win makes it very satisfying each time you lock up victory points.