Neo Nazis and the Alt Right


#2445

This was already covered somewhere on this board. It comes off very sympathetic to these Nazis. Wasn’t this the one that had an apology attached to it or was it a different one.


#2446

Ah, I think the sympathetic one was the NYT piece, wasn’t it? About some random nazi dude? This one is about the guy running the daily stormer.

This piece doesn’t come off as normalizing of the guy at all. It certainly makes him out to be pretty pathetic, but not at all normal.

He’s clearly a really fucked up guy with major mental problems.


#2447

You’re right. I feel like I read them around the same time so I mixed them up. I wasn’t very happy with this tone either. It reads as if everyone who has a hard time and tries to find themselves in the world will just fall into Nazism as if there is no other choice which isn’t really true…


#2448

Man, reading that, I couldn’t help thinking of the Gerald Kersh quote:

“There are men whom one hates until a certain moment when one sees, through a chink in their armour, the writhing of something nailed down and in torment.”


#2449

It’s weird… because the guy is still profoundly shitty. But he’s also pathetic.

I mean, it inspires pity, but it doesn’t normalize him or make you think, “Oh, well maybe he has a point.”

It’s just like, “He was kind of a loser willing to cling to any cause to gain acceptance, and he got progressively more and more disturbed… and eventually landed in a community of losers, and Nazism is where he found acceptance.”

It’s like, if that’s something anyone thinks is something they want to be part of… I dunno what to tell them.


#2450

At the core of the matter, the vast majority of these guys are redeemable because they are fundamentally broken. It’s a weak ideology with very obvious logical flaws. You don’t have to look far to find stories of Neo-Nazis renouncing their beliefs after getting decent guidance or maybe meeting the right person or simply just growing the fuck up.

It’s fun to fantasize about rounding up all the self-declared Nazis and, I dunno, systematically incinerating them in giant ovens or something, but these are human beings who ARE capable of changing. It’s just hard work is all.


#2451

I think it’s pretty easy to say or think that when you’re not the object of their hate and violence.


#2452

Redeemable isn’t synonymous with excusable.

Tin’s right, although on some level I feel like it’s not really my job to convert them back to the light. Right now, they are pursuing an ideology which is harmful to the human species.


#2453

Well, I’m not interested in reigniting the “Nazi deserve punching” sub-thread. Retribution is easy and satisfying; rehabilitation is hard.


#2454

Having a bunch of white guys standing around talking about how nice it is to save other white guys and those white guys are actually wanting to and actually are killing black guys and the black guys question that is not about retribution.

Those white guys going the saving… Almost zero consequence upon failure. Not so for the rest of us.


#2455

Anglin now shared what he said had been his true editorial approach all along: “Ironic Nazism disguised as real Nazism disguised as ironic Nazism.”

Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least they were sincere.


#2456

I’m not going to try and convince you or Timex to change your views. I understand where they come from and respect them, even though I disagree.

However, this is moving the goalposts out of one stadium and hauling them into a baseball diamond somewhere in a neighboring county. If someone is committing a crime they should be held accountable and pay the price. If someone is spouting hatred or slurs, they should be called out on it and exposed. Nowhere have I said that an amnesty for crimes should be awarded to these people, and I doubt I’ve even implied it.

Feel free to tell me that people who hold some beliefs are beyond contempt and not worthy of any effort of reintegration into society; I think there is a case to be made there. But at least try and do so without accusing me of excusing murder. That’s not fair and I suspect you know it.


#2457

Nazis murdering people is not moving the goalpost. It’s their goal. It’s what they want. It’s what they literally did. This is not just beliefs. These people want the rest of us eradicated. I suspect you know that but for some reason want to minimize this integral piece of their belief system.


#2458

Everyone knows I have no problems beating up nazis.

However, I think that it’s worth noting that for some of these guys, these racist ideologies may not hold any specific attraction to them. It’s almost like they just needed some kind of ideology to join up with, and this is what they ended up joining, because there’s seemingly no minimum requirement to be part of the Nazi group.

The utility in recognizing this is not just for the purpose of somehow “saving” these people, because frankly I think that may be impossible.

I think that the real utility here lies in that if we understand that society’s treatment of folks sometimes pushes them to the fringes, where they are then vulnerable to be swept up by these radical ideologies. Nazism isn’t the only group that does this. We see the exact same thing happen with ISIS.

If society does a better job taking care of folks, maybe we’ll get less nazis and terrorists.


#2459

Well you know, except being white. The ladies joining this group, they’re learning they have requirements too, just unspoken ones except if they read history at all, like really read it, they’d know those too.


#2460

Yup. In particular, angry, disenfranchised (or at least, believing-themselves-disenfranchised) masculinity is evidently an extremely powerful force that can be channeled to do immense evil.


#2461

If we could somehow magically shield the rest of the world from harm, I’d be very happy for ISIS and Nazis to have a war with each other. The funny thing is, I’m sure they’d be happy to do it, too.


#2462

Last I heard, we don’t anyone Congress catering to ISIS. I also don’t believe there has been a lot of talk about setting up happy camps to get these people back into society. In fact, Al Queda, ISIS, street gangs… there was actual anger at the idea of trying to make the world a better place as a means to solve these problems so we just declare war on these groups. Now we have Nazis, a real life actual went to war, defeated, was all American to defeat and it’s somehow different. Why is it different?


#2463

Do you think that a former member of ISIS is irredeemable?


#2464

depends on what they did.