Yes, it’s ok to ostracize people for having abhorrent beliefs.
This is different than ostracizing people, or in the case of Nazis past actions toward minorities, actually murdering them, for what they ARE.
How about this then. I’m not interested in responding to you, so I no longer will. You can feel free to do your thing.
Neo-nazis aren’t Nazis and you’re a moron for trying to link the actions of one to the rantings of the other as if that somehow makes them in some way culpable for the actual murder of millions.
For someone uninteresting in responding, why did you respond? Oh how I miss the rolleyes graemlin.
Neo Nazis are absolutely genocide loving, wish Hitler had won and the entire planet was white fucking Nazis. They also love the new support they have and are showing up with pride instead of holding up in their dark holes like they used to.
Here’s my sanity check:
Are they Nazis? Specifically, do they openly call themselves Nazis?
Do they advocate for Nazi viewpoints and politics?
If yes to the above, then feel free to crap all over them.
Except they totally fucking are.
His view is 100% internally consistent. You’re playing the “you can’t be intolerant of intolerance” card, which has always been a stupid one.
http://smoloko.com/wp-content/uploads/JewGoogleWhiteGenocideMeme.jpg?w=640
Dehumanization, conspiracies, “Zionists” and the like, man where have we seen that before?
Oh, I agree, but how you crap on them matters, IMO. There needs to be a goal beyond venting. What’s the most politically effective counter to these people? Public shame and humiliation can work well, for sure, but it has to be targeted so that you don’t hit the bystanders with the splatter. You start slamming people for their justifiably loathed views and positions by attacking their environment, living choices, and financial situation, you are going to make enemies where you don’t need to among folks who would otherwise have nothing to do with the yahoos you are going after.
What you need to do is recruit people from the same background and circumstances to your side. These folks will reveal as bunk the lies the rightists are spewing. But you can’t do that if you use a shotgun approach IMO.
You’re right, everyone who lives in trailers isn’t white trash. Being poor is not some kind of moral failing.
But they are just TALKING about it! They aren’t actually killing people?
Oh, wait, except when they do.
Ah, but that guy’s certainly not a nazi, right? I mean, his relationship to Nazis in WWII is certainly just superficial.
Oh. Yeah.
Will you please stop being so intolerant of his murdering? He’s a Nazi, he can’t help it. You’re as bad as they are.
WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE NAZIS?
#fuckdiscourse
We have to do this. This is why there is a resistance to Trump- it’s not just to defeat the orange goblin, but to make sure the toxic monsters he dredged out of his swamp never become normalized in this country.
Cool, in this thread we see people stating that words are the same as actions, and that saying people should be killed is the same as killing them. ShivaX creates strawman arguments that I’m arguing you can’t be intolerant to neo-nazis (I said the way Timex talks about them is as hate filled as the way they talk about others), and argues that every Nazi soldier and Nazi party member should have been found guilty of crimes against humanity and executed, because they belonged to the Nazi party apparatus and as such, are equally culpable. That’s it right? T
hat’s your and Timex’s core argument? And you’re also saying that because someone buys into a dead creed, that makes them a member of that dead creed and actually culpable for what those long dead people did, despite zero connection between them beyond a claimed shared ideology.
The Nazi party died in 1945. Neo-Nazis aren’t Nazis. That should be obvious and yet it seems to escape you. That’s testament to the level of depth and intellect you bring to this discussion.
Timex says neo nazis should die, why aren’t people pointing out that that’s the same as committing actual murder when using the same kind of bastardised nonsensical logic?
Oh right, because that concept is too complex for the average hate-filled moron that has the self awareness of a gadfly. “Neo-nazis are bad, therefore anything bad said about or done to them is good”. Children.
As I said, it’s all the more disappointing because most (all) of you guys come from a country where in living memory, it was learned that hate can’t be vanquished with hate. Is your education system really so poor that you entirely missed out on that part of history?
By all means though, keep perpetuating long standing stereotypes.
It’s always nice when the Nazi sympathizers on the board announce themselves publicly!
Why won’t anyone think of the Nazis!
You guys are just perpetuating long standing negative stereotypes about Nazis.
Whether or not they follow all 25 core tenets of the NSDAP program, what matters is they espouse and promote genocide, ethnic cleansing, homophobia, anti-Semitism, racism, misogyny and euthanasia of disabled people.
Hang them. Hang them all.
I’m just gonna say it brings a tear to my eye that there exists at least one topic that pwk, Nesrie, Timex, and I can all agree on.
I guess Nazis are good for something after all!
Get in here y’all, group hug.
I have often disagreed with kedaha, but on this, I think he is correct.
It’s not pedantry to assert that “Nazi,” as in a member of the National Socialist German Workers Party, is a specific category that, by default, can’t really describe someone in the USA with similar ideological leanings. The term has a very specific historical meaning, and calling people Nazis in this context, while a convenient and descriptive shorthand, is, IMO, counter-productive, as it gives people an opening to dismiss the criticism, if nothing else. They are people who for some warped reason have adopted the ideology of a group that was ruthlessly exterminated with extreme prejudice over seventy years ago, in another country, in another entire context. They’re disturbed, violence-prone idiots, and the irony is, the real Nazis would have axed them faster than they got rid of the SA.
I don’t think anyone here thinks the people being discussed are anything but a waste of oxygen. They’re horrible. Their words are hurtful, hateful, often ignorant, usually incendiary, and generally vile. We should, indeed, be attacking their ideology ceaselessly, refuting it at very point. And, if they do extend their thoughts into actions, they need to be put down like mad dogs, ruthlessly and without mercy. No argument there.
One of the things we celebrate about this country, though, is the freedom to be a complete ass hat in your speech and opinions, even if you piss everyone else off. At least, that’s how I’ve always seen it. Even as a Jew I support the efforts of groups like the ACLU to protect the non-violent speech and expression of utter shitlords like the Klan and these throwback wannabe “Nazis.”
There seems to be, among some of the folks here, a sense that the time has come to take the gloves off, and stop “coddling” this social detritus, and excise the cancer by fire and sword. I agree–in terms of ideas. But it seems there is a willingness to skip over all the pesky due process and constitutional stuff as mere impediments to true justice, a justice inflicted, as in medieval jurisprudence, on the body. This thinking bothers me, because it is the same thinking that informed–you guessed it–the real Nazis, the Bolsheviks, and every other hard-line, authoritarian cabal ever assembled in a nation.
I tend to be utilitarian in many ways. Look at what the goal should be: ending the viability of this sort of racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic, inhumane ideology and rhetoric, and preventing anyone from acting on these sorts of things collectively (preventing individual acts is probably impossible). Then, how do you do this? I would opine that you manifestly do not accomplish these things by demonizing a whole class or social category of people (in this case, the white, largely rural, often lower socioeconomic strata population) as a class, as opposed to for their words and actions. You also do not accomplish your goals by adopting, even in a pale reflection, the methods and tools of the very thugs you are trying to stop.
One can argue that you have to fight fire with fire, etc., but historically, this doesn’t work. It never has worked, in the long run. It is especially dangerous when you try to defend a society built on certain principles by voiding those principles. Goldwater, accepting the 1964 GOP nomination, using words penned by speech writer Karl Hess, said, “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” He was wrong, dead wrong, and I think that embracing his ideas will not help defeat this vile recrudescence of racially charged fascism (which is what it is) we’re talking about. It will only reinforce it, and provide more recruits.
That’s just my $02. I certainly share the revulsion people feel for the sorts of right wing idiots we’re talking about.
I mean WW2 worked pretty well for putting down Nazis for a hot minute/several decades.
Nazis are garbage. There are plenty of other hate groups with similar ideologies these young hateful, murderous and envious men could join but they chose Nazis… and they chose Nazis because they are Nazis. If they want to form a private club, preach the same thing and call it District 1, go for it… but no they won’t because they’re Nazis.