Great link thanks.
An extra data point I have encountered I my time I the USA is how some white people are offended if they are labeled white. I have been corrected by fellow immigrant colleagues and friends from Spain and Italy(!) for mentioning they were white, they viewed the label as entirely wrong as they have defined white as being of Northern European descent not Mediterranean European descent. Where French people fit into this scheme is somewhat of a mystery :)
Mexican friends who are nearly whiter than me in skin tone are almost offended if its pointed out they are white people. I understand both perspectives to be honest, I am almost the definition of a white person and yet I flinch a little at the label these days. Whatever bucket Trump voters are in I wanna be in a different one. But as an anglo/irish dude with a skin tone which borders on pale blue I donât think I am going to be able to shake the label any time soon :)
I more or less agree with that.
I would probably phrase it as unlocking the hitherto unknown behavior. But I think that many people would agree with the overall thrust: that being confronted with the concept of a group identity forces people who didnât previously face the world in those terms react negatively.
YeahâŚmuch like how a white South African in the US is not âAfrican Americanâ, âwhiteâ-ness in the US is complicated.
My wifeâs grandmother is first generation Sicilian (Sicilian, not ItalianâŚa very important distinction, Iâve been lead to understand), and they largely define their family by that non-white identity. But theyâre also definitely âwhiteâ by almost every societal standard. Italaians are one of the more recently âwhiteâ eth ic groups though (i.e. when her grandmotherâs generation were children, Italian was pretty much an âethnicâ).
Agree. It sure would be nice if we as a society could just discard these simplistic ways of labeling people. I mean skin colour really is the dumbest one imaginable. People could get more information about my character from what choose for lunch than the colour of my skin.
This probably has to do with immigration paperwork and the weird usage of caucasian in the US. Back when I lived in the US, the visa waiver had you mark whether you were white/caucasian or hispanic. As a Spaniard, I did mark Hispanic, because it does fit better culturally and because caucasian does mean something very specific in Europe (Italians and Spanish people are definitely not Caucasian. We are Latins).
I would consider myself white back then, but also hispanic (which was the closer to latin) and not caucasian. Itâs just that the US system of racial paperwork distinction does not always fit (southern) European standards.
Also I want to point out that these distinctions over here have more to do with culture than with race. This might be what you are seeing with Mexican people too (who understandably might consider themselves hispanic regardless of skin color).
Oh totally, its fascinating how much of it has to do with language and culture! Much of it rooted in ancient history which has no real relevance to todayâs world. I always decline to answer race or gender when offered the chance on paperwork. Mainly because I dont think either of those things is relevant to my value as an employee or immigrant. It also happens to be redundant, if an employer or country really cares so much about wanting to judge people by skin colour or gender then they have my photo and can figure it out, but its really none of their business imho.
edit: Oh to follow on from your point, its also turtles all the way down. As an anglo/irish person I am acutely aware of how both sides of my ancestry regard each other as different. Which is laughable. I challenge anyone not from there, from appearance alone to tell me any difference between English / Irish people. yet I have to listen to endless droning on about Celtic or Anglo Saxon ancestry, I drink a lot at family gatherings as you can imagine.
I think thereâs some contemporary relevance when you look at it culturally, and not through a racial lens. I have befriended and or dated Spanish, Portugese, Italians and Greeks. We are incredibly alike in our world views. There are differences, but regional differences within each country can be more pronounced than international differences (language and location specific customs notwithstanding).
It doesnât mean much other than as a curiosity, but the cultural similarities do exist.
For sure! Cafe/Bar/Pub culture for example. Heck even times of day when folks eat! It is interesting. Its almost like countries are this false layer on top of a more real cultural one.
Eating times are fun. I had people from the US come here that just couldnât wrap their head around the fact 90% of restaurants close from 3pm to 8:30pm. In most places you need to go to a fast food joint to have a meal between those times.
They got mad. And hungry.
ShivaX
3849
I present, the master race.
None
3850
Bested by the Russian winter and the⌠Portland summer. Master race, indeed.
I donât know if this is the thread for QAnon, butâŚ
Lol
KevinC
3853
If itâs a prank, the perpetrators need to be fucking whipped. In 2018 I donât think that sort of thing is funny.
CraigM
3854
Holy hell, yes.
The dumbest timeline for sure.
Judge: App User Accused In Planning Charlottesville Rally Canât Keep Identity Hidden (NPR)
A federal judge in California has ruled that a confidential messaging app must release the identity of a user who is accused of helping plan violence at a white nationalist rally last year in Charlottesville, Va.
The unnamed woman is one of dozens of people accused of using the gamer chat app Discord to organize violence at that event. Lawyers representing victims of that violence have subpoenaed the app for more information on those conversations. But the woman, known as âJane Doeâ in the court case and âkristall.nightâ on the app, attempted to quash the subpoena.
Chief Magistrate Judge Joseph Spero of the Northern District of California has allowed the subpoena to move forward, ruling that the userâs right to anonymity is outweighed by the importance of investigating a possible violent conspiracy. But the real name of the user should be revealed only to a small circle of people involved in the court case, Spero said.
Doeâs lawyer, Marc Randazza, tells NPR that it will be his clientâs decision whether to appeal but that he is inclined to recommend it.
âI donât like what my client had to say,â he says. âI donât like my clientâs views. All youâve gotta do is look at the username. ⌠But I have a more strong opinion that you have the right to do that. You have the right to be extremely right-wing. Thatâs what America is. You have the right to be a raging full-throated Nazi if you want to be.â
âSomebody has to stand up and say they have the right to do this,â he says.
I mean, do you have a right to conspire to incite violence? I feel like we have laws for this sort of thing.
Also is there literally anything that isnât a 1A issue to Randazza et al?
