Neo Nazis and the Alt Right


#4769

Voting for someone who doesn’t represent your values or interest to own the libs.


#4770

This has been the case since 2016. Trump’s supporters effectively abandoned every principle they once pretended to have.

I guess they still hate brown people and folks who have THE GAY.


#4771

There is no better illustration of this than Trumpists’ embrace of the Saudi Royal Family. It boggles the mind how many leaps in logic they have had to go through for that.

I wonder what would happen if a member of Antifa killed a “liberal” journalist.


#4772

And yet there is this huge ass fear that if we label these people the racists and bigots they are we’re crossing streams and some evil god will step through a parallel universe or… something.

Well they’re technically Caucasians, and no worries, they’d turn on them in a heartbeat if they some out run out of other targets to blame for anything and everything.


#4773

Wasn’t one of the main talking points against Clinton for the base was that she was too cozy with the Saudis?
Now the Saudis are the Best People ever, even as they act worse than normal, because reasons.


#4774

I wish we as a society could allow the exchange of ideas to be open rather than being so afraid of fringe views that we sweep them under the rug and berate anybody who even entertains them. I don’t listen to Joe Rogan’s podcast regularly, but I appreciate that he is willing to have a conversation about things that most media won’t ever touch.

It’s not for me or anyone else to decide for humanity what is acceptable and what is not. I wish we could have smarter discourse and allow anyone to have their say and then let people debate and come to their own conclusions about what is bullshit. I’m not saying Joe Rogan is running the smartest debate around, but at least he’s making an effort to communicate rather than dictate.


#4775

You think he’s having discourse or debate with them? It seems like he’s just giving them a megaphone to me. Archie Bunker, by the way, was not meant to be take seriously, except a fair amount of people decided it was a reinforcement of their views instead.


#4776

I think he’s at least trying to have a discourse, absolutely. I don’t expect you to see it that way.


#4777

I eagerly await the GOP’s utter lack of response.


#4778

I am guessing it’s easier to have discourse with individuals who hate other races when the person discoursing with you isn’t of the hated race. He isn’t really known for asking difficult questions, but yeah to get access to 4 million plus ears, I am sure it’s not hard to find people to go on his show and talk knowing you’ll mostly get softball questions if even that.

Since he’s not a journalist, I think the cost for him or the consequence of hosting whomever he likes for giggles and clicks is pretty much zero.


#4779

You’re looking for someone who listens to a person say racist things and then puts them in their place for how wrong they are. I’m OK with hearing a racist say racist things and then listening to a conversation with them about who they are and why they have these opinions. Then I can reflect on how I feel about that. I think people should be able to have the ability to think for themselves.

A good example of this I saw recently is the premiere episode of Shades of America with W Kamau Bell. Bell, a black comedian, engages in conversation with literal KKK members. He says his piece, they say theirs, and there is an attempt to establish some degree of humanity. Obviously, this must be very difficult for Bell, but he doesn’t yell at them and tell them that they are assholes even though he must be thinking it. He lets them have their say on his own show and allows the viewers to make their own judgments about how they should feel about it.


#4780

He’s an activist and comedian. He might let people talk on his podcast, but he is not sitting around passively letting people make up their minds. He’s actually part of ant-harassment efforts, an active member of the ACLU. He’s actually spoken out about racism that affected him.

You are talking about this guy right?

https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/03/01/front-row-comic-w-kamau-bell-and-friends-head-to-zellerbach-hall/


#4781

We got a lot of work to do.


#4782

And that’s a good thing. I’m glad that he has a platform to speak his mind about his personal experience with racism and how they have shaped his world view. And if he can have an open and honest conversation with people who see things differently without shouting them down or telling them their opinion is garbage, that’s even better. I like to see people communicate their experiences from all points of view. They help me form my own ideas and opinions.


#4783

There is nothing passive about or I hope people make up their mind with no guidance coming from W Kamau Bell. The same cannot be said for Joe Rogan. There is no proof whatsoever that Joe Rogan intends for anything good to come out of his show or that he cares one way or another. He is not an activist against racism; Bell is.


#4784

I’m afraid you’ve missed my point. Activism is not what I’m advocating, communication is.


#4785

I didn’t miss your point. I am talking about the purpose of communication. There is usually a purpose. Rogan doesn’t appear to have one outside of commercial interests. You think it’s some some of genuine exchange, but you don’t know that. His motivation is just as likely to listen to someone ramble… communication is two way.


#4786

I don’t agree with that assessment of Rogan. I agree with you that he’s not necessarily going to go out of his way to give somebody’s questionable beliefs the third degree. I do think he’s going to have a conversation with them, or as you see it, throw them some softballs. I don’t know how genuine his thoughts are, but it’s not really that important to me. If I want to (which I normally don’t), I value my ability to go and listen to him have a conversation with somebody, even if I find it repugnant what that person stands for. I don’t need Joe Rogan to take a point of view and tell me if that person is right or wrong.

You can already see people in this thread trying to align Rogan with Nazi beliefs because he had Alex Jones on the show. I’m sick of this guilt by association bullshit just because somebody values the freedom to explore ideas.


#4787

It’s not just having Alex on his show. He and Alex Jones are friends, or at least they were, for decades.I suspect that has more to do with it than having Alex on his show. You are right though, we don’t agree on Rogan’s motivations. Bell’s though are very clear, so I don’t think you should lump the two together. one is an activist, puts himself out there, his views, motivates and advocates. The other has controversial guests on his show with no real commitment to truth or facts or even refuting actual Nazis at all.


#4788

You’re trying to draw all these lines about who is right and who is wrong, but it’s not what I’m talking about. I want people to have interesting conversations and public exchanges of ideas, and I want people to not be afraid about who they are having a conversation with. I understand how scary it is to let Nazis speak and how easily that can be packaged and marketed into something that appeals to a broader culture. But I value free speech and I’m willing to take my chances that people can make up their minds about what is right and wrong.