6327

As Marx said, the second time as farce.

6328

Beats the hell out of Joe the Plumber.

6329

Old article, but the furries have been dealing with their fascists for a while already.

6330

Expecting them to all sign up for the new Hitler Youth program

https://www.newsweek.com/ice-launching-citizens-academy-course-how-agency-arrests-immigrants-1516656?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true

6331

Can 2020 get any weirder? Now furries and My Little Pony fans have Nazis in their midst? This is close to sensory overload for me. I don’t even want to try to understand.

6332

In 2020’s defense, I think this all predates 2020. It’s like blaming 1942 for the Rise of Nazi Germany.

6333

Yeah, the Nazis in online groups problem is more a 2015/2016 issue.

6334

They suspended the account!

6335

But not entirely ignored…

More can be done, but at least there are some things being done.

6336

“Our whole thing is, we believe in freedom and absolute liberty for everyone regardless of race, creed, sex, gender, whatever; we don’t care,” Solomon said.

So they claim to be anti-federal government involvement, pro-gun, and libertarian… sounds like they could describe themselves as anti-fascist?

6337

So why aren’t they in Portland defending the liberty and freedom of the protesters?

6338

Well, you know, ‘absolute liberty’ is mostly about everyone else letting them hate on those certain subgroups. It’s the new “State’s Rights”.

edit: here’s a timely twitter rant vs Libertarianism, both economic and political

tl/dr:



6339

Wow that is so succinct and spot on.

6340

Except it’s not, because it’s missing how government power is a tool of the powerful. Roberts presents a simplistic, naive perspective.

In many cases, the extremely powerful lobby the government in order to enact rules that limit freedom, in order to secure and perpetuate their own power.

You see this with large established corporations all the time. Heavy regulation benefits large, established corporations over small companies, not because those companies can’t abide by the regulations, but because it costs a larger chunk of their revenue to prove to the government that they are abiding by them.

While the government can do good things, what Roberts fails to recognize is that things are not automatically good simply by virtue of the government doing them.

What’s amazing is that we are living though demonstrable proof of that right now. You have an imbecile in power who is showing us every day what happens when the government abuses it’s power.

Let’s put aside the most obvious horrors we’ve seen as a result of overstretched executive power, in the form of children thrown into cages and secret police roaming our streets.

Look at the economic devastation that Trump has wrecked with his misguided trade wars. And to be clear, most of that garbage was straight or of Bernie Sanders’ playbook. The government basically stuffed it’s nose into trade, and fucked everything up. It damaged our industries, and caused Americans to pay mountains of money in additional taxes, which Trump then funneled to his supporters (who his own policies had hurt).

An authoritarian dictatorship could be a paradise, if you had a perfect ruler. But you don’t. And even if you have a good one, eventually that ruler will be bad. And this is what we see today with Trump. You see what happens when a bad person is given control of all that power

The idea of libertarianism requires you to understand that the government is not fucking good. It’s just a group of men and women. And it can do good things, and it can do bad things. It’s not the answer to all of our problems. Some government intrusion into our lives is necessary, but there is indeed value in individual liberty.

6341

Yes, that’s the problem, Roberts is wrong because he is naive. He does not know that government is run by powerful people, even though he says so in the thread you’re responding to. He does not know that the powerful use government to entrench their power, even though he says almost precisely that. It has never occurred to him that powerful industries use regulation to entrench their power, even as he gives examples of them doing precisely that.

Maybe try reading that thread again?

6342

Well, yes, I think he would acknowledge that government capture by the wealthy and powerful is a problem. But given that the powerful exercise dominance in their personal interactions, in their corporate/business worlds, then the government should be the one domain where The People are supposed to compete and have all voices represented. If you just assume that all govt is lost to the Powers That Be, then there is no way to check their power and the American experiment has long since failed. Is Libertarianism just lazy Accellerationism?

6343

This is what he argues in the thread. He says people that already have an advantage use libertarianism as a way to fend off perceived threats to those advantages, and then turn away from libertarianism if those advantages become threatened by non-governmental action.

He definitely doesn’t say this. The thread mostly argues the opposite.

6344

Sorry, i didn’t read the entirety of the 30 tweet thread, i admit. I only read the tldr part posted here. (Because 30 tweets is kind of absurd)

I’m curious to see how he’s going to resolve the acknowledgement that government is a tool of the powerful, and it’s restrictions on liberty don’t benefit the weak, and the idea that we should have the government restrict our liberties.

6345

“It’s Roberts’ fault that I criticized his thinking without actually reading it.”

6346

Ok, i took the time to read the whole thread… And my original assessment was correct.

Roberts mentions the powerful, and their shifting attitudes towards libertarianism when losing power, but this isn’t what i was talking about. He’s talking about people advocating the free market, until they aren’t winning in it.

I was talking about how the powerful don’t merely suggest that the government stand aside and let the free market do it’s thing, as Roberts suggests. Instead, the powerful use government to amplify their already existing power. Powerful corporations encourage the government to impose regulations, not simply after they lose their place of power, but while they hold it. They use government regulations to squash competition with themselves.

In terms of Roberts suggestion that all freedoms must be limited, of course i agree. I think any reasonable person including all but the most dogmatic libertarians, agree with that. The suggestion that libertarianism advocates unlimited freedom is inaccurate.

If he just wants to argue against anarchistic, unlimited freedoms, then ok. I don’t know anyone who’s going to argue in favor of such things.