magnet
1824
Ok, then by banning Nazis from Twitter you are convincing people that their cause is unpopular.
Exactly. Blizzard can’t kick you in the nuts but they can show you the door and never let you back in. Likewise, Twitter can’t kick you in the nuts but they can show you the door.
You have freedom of speech even after every social media company has shown you the door. Write a book. Hand out pamphlets. Start your own social media network.
But at some point, it asks you to abide by terms of use. And those definitely restrict what you are allowed to say on Facebook.
If Zuckerberg were a Nazi, then Facebook would be another Stormfront. I wouldn’t visit it, and I wouldn’t care if it let me in.
Because while I don’t think expression justifies violence, I think do that expression should have consequences.
Clay
1825
I completely agree with this point. I mentioned somewhere else in this topic (I think) that I have worked extensively on projects related to the deradicalization of right-wing extremists, in conjunction with Life After Hate, the SPLC, and the NIJ. While I detest Stormfront and other similar sites, they were a very important mechanism that those groups and the FBI used to track the activity of people considered very dangerous. I would far prefer we live in a world where those sites are still online and the people are more easily tracked.
No, but you can incite people to kill through speech. That is the case of Rwanda and the cockroach language. This has been an issue more recently, too. Here’s another example.
I’m well aware of the nuances of allowing free speech vs. inciting vs. physical harm. But again – there’s no magic bullet here, so to speak, which leads us to situations like now where the vast majority of people with whom you’re discussing this topic here want free speech to be a universal right but whom also are struggling when they see the vile language, behavior, and beliefs of Neo Nazis (and others) on a daily basis.
I actually think this is a really healthy conversation for us to be having as a society right now. It’s been too long since we’ve been forced to face this type of dilemma and while the causes are unfortunate, it’s good for us, as a society, to be forced to think through these issues.
You are convincing them by oppressing them and becoming a POS fascist. That is the entire point. Take a screwdriver, open your skull case, put that thought inside, then close it again. LOL. You are advocating for the suppression of freedom of speech, this is not just convincing people. You are participating in a witch hunt, something i learn is a national US pastime. Burn the witch, lol.
You know, totalitarian fascists like you always think the same. Let me tell you something. Back in 1967 up until 1974, Greece was ruled by a fascist dictatorship. These dictators exiled dissidents to an abandoned island. On this island, they were free. They could do whatever they wanted. Too bad there was nothing on it, and they had to eat grass or catch fish with their own hands or else they would die. But they were still free, of course… No one removed their freedom. It is just that a government ship took them there and left. And that no other ship ever showed up to take them…
This is what your argument amounts to: " Well, we have a monopoly on social media and all the important sites on the internet and we are going to ban you everywhere we can, but you are still free to discuss your opinion in your own site no one will ever visit because google will blacklist the search results"…
Come on, i know you leftists are fascists of the worst kind, but at least be sincere. You just want to opress your opponents. Like all the other fascists before you.
Clay
1827
I think you have some interesting points and there are people here who are willing to engage you in discussion. Many people here have been part of this community for 10+ years and it’s not that often that somebody new arrives and is willing to reasonably discuss these issues. However, there are a lot of people who drop in just to try to start a flame war.
We all know that this section of this forum has heated debates from time to time. You’re going to make more of an impact if you tone down the personal insults, though.
At least I’m upfront about this part!
As long as you get your bloodbath, you’ll be happy… nevermind the fact that command economies have never worked and the ensuing chaos would probably cost substantially more than tyhe “1%” their lives. All for a utopia that simply cannot be.
Timex
1830
No one has a monopoly on social media.
You can go start your own Nazi social media company. That’s basically what Gab is.
No one is obligated to support your Nazi ideas. Sorry if you don’t like that.
Being ostracized is a legitimate repercussion from being a terrible person.
Ok, I’m curious, Templar, how are modern social media companies that dominate the communications landscape different from latter-day communications\media networks? Would you have argued 30 years ago that neo-nazis needed to have access to spread their views on ABC, NBC (which were the dominant media platforms of their time), etc?
These people still can communicate. They can(self?-) publish books, rave on street corners, etc. No one is stopping them. They are allowed to say whatever they want, wherever they want. Why are private companies forced to be complicit in their message?
magnet
1832
If Nazis showed up at my door and asked to borrow my megaphone for their upcoming rally, I would tell them to get lost. That’s not oppression. And I would allow Twitter the same opportunity. Twitter is nothing more than a giant megaphone, after all.
I don’t think fascists should be exiled. I just don’t think anyone should be forced to help them. That includes Twitter.
Yes, that is exactly what it comes down to. Fascists must spread their message on their own, and nobody should help them.
What a topsy turvy world you live in, where not helping fascists makes you a fascist.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around Nazi Juggalos. I go away for a couple of hours and there are 88 new posts in this thread, many of them LONG posts. What the hell guys?
vyshka
1834
It is communist indoctrination week in P&R
You’re welcome in advance for my very, politely short shitposting, Mark. I’d hate anyone to develop eyestrain.
That wasn’t a personal insult. I meant what i said, that someone who oppresses people and removes their freedom of speech or at least severely restricts it, is a fascist. Wasn’t a personal attack.
But yeah, i mean, you are a pretty good person for criticizing my tone while neglecting to notice that certain forum posters offended me repeatedly with no reason from the get-go. Are you always this fair? You should be a judge.
Timex
1837
You do not have any right to use Twitter.
If Twitter bans you, they are not restricting your rights.
Nobody tell Mark about the last minute Furry March on Washington permit. [fake]
All these posts, and all you care about are Nazis. I know you deeply care about Nazis, but i don’t. I care about freedom of speech. I don’t give a flying f*ck about Nazis and how they spread their message, all i care about is not providing the state OR MEGACORPORATIONS with an easy route to remove free speech from anyone they want.
You keep pretending that TV networks belong in the same category with social media. They are not. Social media are the equivalent of the telephone. They are means of communication, they aren’t tv networks or newspapers. They latter-day equivalent would be to remove Neo-nazis from the telephone grid and only allow them to invest in their own telephone network. If you don’t understand how this is bad, then i don’t know what else i can say.
Again, you are commiting a logical fallacy. The point of discussion is not about being complicit to their message, aggreeing with a message, becoming Nazis or whatever. No one is forcing the social media platforms to be complicit to the message, because those media platforms are supposed to be message-agnostic. You don’t expect your telephone network to be complicit to your message, do you? Facebook is not a propaganda institution, or a political organism, it is a COMMUNICATION COMPANY. It is supposed to provide communication services. They shouldn’t be allowed to strong arm people into what they should discuss, in the same way your cell phone company doesn’t force you to stop talking dirty to your girlfriend over the phone.
You don’t get it do you?
Why ban me? They are removing something i previously owned. They are removing value from me. They must have a reason for it. If that reason is discrimination, then they are violating my rights. Discrimination is a huge violation of human rights. It is, HILLARIOUSLY, the reason leftists call for “diversity” and “tolerance” and “acceptance”. If someone refuses to service a gay man, you will go get your pitchforks, if someone refuses to service someone because he voted for Trump, you will say nothing. This is blatant hypocricy.
Timex
1841
No, they are not.
You do not own any rights to use Twitter.
Templar, do you think Twitter is required to allow someone to use their service to reply to tweets from women and call them filthy whores, or reply to tweets from people of color and call them stupid n’s? Isn’t there a point at which it’s ok to ban people from a service that is a commercial enterprise?
If I own a restaurant and you come in and start yelling at my customers, don’t I have a right to ban you? Aren’t you removing value from my enterprise by your actions? I will discriminate against you, not based on how you were brought into this world, but based on how you are a complete asshole and how you are disrupting my business.
You are conflicting private property with a business. Your megaphone is your own, you can give it where you want. It is yours, keep it. But if you run a business and discriminate on customers based on race/religion/political beliefs/appearence/social status, then this is violating their rights. Twitter is not a giant megaphone. Twitter is a cell phone company that some “democrats” want to spy on what its clients are telling and cut their connections depending on the content.
I do not care about fascists. All i care is a bout free speech. It is a matter of PRINCIPLE. If you defend the right of megacorps to censor “unwanted” content, then they will abuse that right to censor other things in the future, according to their owners’ interests. For example, Monsanto might spread a disease in the food chain due to their GM, and some activist may catch on on it and want to spread the word, but all social media receive huge bribes and censor the messages and ban anyone who attempts to spread them. See where this is going?
All media in US belong in 5 mega companies. Do you feel fine about them deciding what you get to read and hear? Do you feel fine about 3-4 mega internet companies decide what you are allowed to discuss online? Do you honestly believe all these billionairs are living breathing angels and will never abuse their power?
