Network/Ghost World

Movies
1

Maybe the recent love-in regarding '70s movies that occurred after my Three Days of the Condor post is accurate. Noone even mentioned Network, but I just saw that movie and its very impressive. I’ll contrast it briefly with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which I criticized for having been made 2.5 decades too late. Network on the other hand is ahead of its time. This kind of criticism in a 1976 movie is surprising. Anyone looking for more ammo to shoot Television with need look no further than this movie.

The acting in Network is some of the best I’ve seen from an ensemble cast anywhere. Dunaway gives an epic performance as the believer in TV… watch her face as her older lover tells her he can’t get her out of his mind… her delight in the attention (the human “ratings”) is what is at the core of the anti-TV message of this film. Also, when she rails against the falling ratings of Beale a vein sticks out of her arm for a moment… a brilliant detail. I thought the Dunaway character should have been focused on more… more of her motivations should have been explored. Throughout the movie Dunaway has wide eyes… as if she sees too much. Excellent writing provides plenty of opportunities for the actors.

Ghost World I include since I saw it just before Network and also because it has the same air of societal criticism. I saved the best for last though, since Ghost World is a merely good movie. Ghost World rests solely on its characters, and they weren’t strong enough to carry the film. Ghost World is more of a political Anti-Hollywood film than anything.

2

Except Ghost World doesn’t in any way mention Hollywood.

3

Yeah, but it’s against commercialism in all its forms, so I don’t think it matters that Hollywood isn’t explicitly slammed. There isn’t a scene of Enid smashing the shit out of a Buick and screaming “Fuck GM!” either, but it’s obvious that she’s against pretty much every mainstream commercial product that there is, including inoffensive, family-sized sedans. The comic makes her anti-business stuff more blatant, btw, as Daniel Clowes mentions a couple of products by name–Nike, Lunchables, fashion mags.

4

Oh, I wasn’t disagreeing with that, but that’s not want Koontz said.

5

The “Anti-Hollywood” comment is based on this…

#1: I didn’t notice a single special effect

#2: The movie didn’t have a traditional plot

#3: The movie was low-budget

This movie actually looks like a high-end Indie, with the exception of Buscemi.

I’m a little too kind to the movie in point #2… it really didn’t have a plot at all. It was a soap opera in the sense that the plot was based almost entirely on relationships and character studies.

Now… none of my above remarks are tied to the movie’s content… but they are all Anti-Hollywood. Now throw in the content and you have all the more Anti-Hollywood. Just check out the ending of the film… there’s no way that occurs in a Hollywood flick.

6

I dunno, girl finds boy, boy gets girl, boy loses girl is pretty standard.

7

I loved Ghost World, one of my favorite movies of the last several years. It’s more about people being marginalized when they fail to fit in than it is about consumerism.

The late Filthy Critic had a good take on it:

http://www.bigempire.com/filthy/ghostworld.html

8

Can someone explain the final bus scene in GHOST WORLD? I’m at a loss.

9

But one of the main reasons that Enid doesn’t fit in is her hatred of consumerism. I don’t think that the consumerism and fitting in themes can be separated. To fit in, you have to buy stuff. One of the biggest symbols of Seymour’s attempt to fit in is the jeans that his girlfriend buys him.

This is pretty pronounced in the movie, but absolutely everywhere in the comic. It seems like every second panel features some screed about fashion mags, jobs, music, etc. Enid’s even less sympathetic in the book.
Also, there’s a running subplot about an old record Enid had as a kid, that can’t be found in any record store today. What she wants, she can’t buy. Sort of ties into both themes there.

You should read the book, Mark, if you haven’t already. It’s one of those graphic novels you can read over and over again.

10

Is the filthy critic really dead? Or did he just retire from reviewing movies?

11

The old man is a stable secure bastion for her in a chaotically changing world. His departure is a betrayal of what he means to her.

Heartbroken, with nothing left to tie her to that place, she boards the bus and heads off into her uncertain future.

Like I said, its not a Hollywood ending. This ending completely contrasts with Secretary, which employed the Hollywood ending.

12

The old man is a stable secure bastion for her in a chaotically changing world. His departure is a betrayal of what he means to her.

Heartbroken, with nothing left to tie her to that place, she boards the bus and heads off into her uncertain future.

Like I said, its not a Hollywood ending. This ending completely contrasts with Secretary, which employed the Hollywood ending.[/quote]

I would prefer an ending that is understandable, and doesn’t require some sort of odd interpretation full of pretentious ideas.

Case in point - 12 Monkeys. Not a Hollywood ending by a long shot, the the implications of which are not only very very bad, but immidiately reconcilable.

On another note, Fight Club could’ve used a 12 Monkeys ending, because a Hollywood ending on a movie with huge anti-consumerism themes is sort of…ironic? But not fitting.

13

{I pick a brow up off the ground}

Here you go, Machfive… I think you dropped this.

Two disagreements. The ending of Fight Club is not Hollywood, its not a happy ending. The result of the ending was very similar to dial 911 day… the economy is set back but recovers. The political repercussions of this situation aren’t clear, but I can’t imagine it would be good with respect to personal liberty. When a single free man does considerable harm to the economy of his host nation the idea may well be that some of those freedoms have to be restricted to avoid this sort of thing happening again. Its an Anti-Liberty action at the very least.

Anti-consumerism? Certainly the main character saw things that way… with his insane consumer depravity turning into his only slightly less than insane bohemian poverty.

The real issue going on in Fight Club is what happens when a nihilistic disenfranchised insane megalomaniac is highly charismatic.

All of his actions derive from his loathing. He creates nothing. The ending is perfect, actually, and entirely fitting. The buildings become ruins. Its a symbol of the outcome of his rage. We finally have our King Kong sequel.

The next day the rebuilding begins and intense suffering is issued, personal suffering issued courtesy of our main character.

Fight Club is brilliant in ways few people understand, and its depressing in ways few people understand. If anyone wants I can clarify further.

Words of wisdom the main character never heard: “Destroy only through Creation”.

14

I’m gonna have to disagree.

He got the girl, lived, and he obtained a worthy objective. I can’t count how many times the thought of blowing up my creditors has crossed my mind.

A better ending would have been him kissing the girl, the building blowing up, and as the last piece of rubble fell, he died of bloodloss from that rather traumatic wound to his face. Minor change, but much better impact.

The real issue going on in Fight Club is what happens when a nihilistic disenfranchised insane megalomaniac is highly charismatic.

Fight Club is brilliant in ways few people understand, and its depressing in ways few people understand. If anyone wants I can clarify further.

No argument there.

As for me being lowbrow, I enjoy my fair share of art house flicks - Amelie and the Way of the Gun coming to mind - But I don’t like having to sit for 10 minutes and try and think of the correct interpretation of an ending. If it doesn’t hit me within 30 seconds, they haven’t done their job as far as I’m concerned.

Fight Club did that. 12 Monkeys did that. Ghost World didn’t. Maybe I’m a mongoloid, but hey, I never claimed to be a member of the intellegensia.

15

We’re from entirely different universes, and I’m very glad not to be in yours at the moment.

He “got the girl” the minute he became bohemian. This movie was not about “getting the girl”.

Living was not relevant to this picture… it would only be relevant to a sequel. The main character was following his insane passion… he really didn’t care whether he lived or died as long as his passion was fulfilled.

He obtained the objective for which his insane passion declared. Calling it “worthy” is quite a stretch.

I just recalled that at the end of the picture the neurotic consumerist kills his bohemian future. Whether this makes things happier or not I can’t say but it implies no more destruction. I suppose the moral of the ending is that there is no need to be neurotic about consumerism because consumer civilization can be destroyed. Strange.

This again illustrates the “different universe” hypothesis. I frequently think about something (usually subconsciously of course) for years, and I find that the longer I think about it the better the results. Nothing that hits me within 30 seconds is very valuable as far as I’m concerned.

16

It’s a bit melodramatic to call it different universes, don’t ya think?

I think “differing tastes” would be a tad less dramatic.

But wait, lemme think about it for a few years and see if it grows on me. ;)

17

The old man is a stable secure bastion for her in a chaotically changing world. His departure is a betrayal of what he means to her.

Heartbroken, with nothing left to tie her to that place, she boards the bus and heads off into her uncertain future.

Like I said, its not a Hollywood ending. This ending completely contrasts with Secretary, which employed the Hollywood ending.[/quote]

that’s the way I interpreted the ending as well. I didn’t find it that confusing, but I think understanding these things depend less on intellect (though they CAN depend on that) and more on feelings and perspectives. I felt that scene. I have no idea why I even liked Ghost World. I normally hate movies like that because they seem self-indulgent, and not in a good way. But I found the movie oddly compelling, even though I hated all of the characters.

18

Come on, Ghost World DOES have a plot, and the final “bus scene” exemplifies the whole thing. The story is really about Enid’s mental state and her inability to move beyond the “Ghost World” of her after high-school, pre-adulthood existance. Rebecca’s character starts at the same place, but shows the path of someone who will make the transition.

The final “Bus Scene” simply shows that Enid will always be one of those people who never really grows up. Like those 45 year-old death rockers who still carry their lunch boxes and wear “Bauhaus” t-shirts.

I know tons of people that are Enid, and I’ve never seen that character protrayed better in a movie. For what it was, I think Ghost World was magnificent.

19

Come on, Ghost World DOES have a plot, and the final “bus scene” exemplifies the whole thing. The story is really about Enid’s mental state and her inability to move beyond the “Ghost World” of her after high-school, pre-adulthood existance.[/quote]

Eh? I really don’t see that. Here’s how I see things…

“Ghost World” describes how Enid treats the world. Most humans treat living humans as real… they exist in a world populated by the physical living people that they interact with socially and physically.

Enid treats living humans as false. Humans have to PROVE their reality to Enid. Watch her follow the “satanic” couple around… she is seeking their reality. They only exist to her because of their possible reality. The old man exists to her because he symbolizes something to her… he serves her.

Watch her in Buscemi’s lair… she looks around with wonder. She does not require that dead things prove their reality. Dead things to her ARE REAL. Death apparently is proof of reality.

This philosophy runs completely counter to how most people treat the world… that living things are real and dead things are false. Enid would make a great historian or archaeologist. She is eminently noble and therefore is bound to be eminently lonely.

The “Ghost World” to Enid is what most people call the “Living World”… to Enid the living world is merely comprised of ghosts with the occasional exception that proves itself.

Watch how she treats her “classmates”… with extreme disdain. They are unacceptable to her. They are not real. Her friend is real only because her friend has proven herself.

Your position is weak because Enid’s position is not temporary. It is a complete worldview. A very very STRANGE worldview but not one that I see her shrugging off. Enid only relates to those living humans who prove themselves to her… and how many are going to be able to do that?

Ghost World does not have a plot… its a character study. The character doesn’t even develop over time… she just plays herself out.

You mean someone who sells out. To Enid, Rebecca is merely weak. To Rebecca, Enid is merely foolish.

Music is an idiotic way to express cultural themes, but its perfect for the masses I suppose.

Enid is a serious version of what you describe.

Enid is a more extreme (more idealistic or pure I guess you could say) version of humans I frequently see… although I frequently see a lot of different people. Humanity is my playground.

Enid represents a Cultural Trend that has never been described nor is understood. Elements of it are found in Goth and Neo-Classicism, but that’s far from the whole story. Its a story waiting to be told.

One part to the story is that Death for the first time in the Western World is not going to be dishonored. Since none of you understand that I won’t talk further.

I don’t think you understand Ghost World.

I agree with you though that Enid won’t be selling out. Maybe she’ll get her Secretary happy ending in Ghost World 2.

Enid has one glaring weakness. One thing that people such as Enid have to have in their identity but that is nothing other than unfortunate. Nothing other than weak. Can anyone tell us what I’m thinking of?

20

Okay, I’ll admit this much:

If that’s Ghost World, it went right over my head. And I really, really pity Enid.