Dhruin
5221
I think this is exactly the point. Forget the difficulty, how about just having some internal consistency? It’s not a big deal in the scheme of things but it would be nice if the effort to create an atmospheric world wasn’t undone by a silly intro that potentially makes you go “huh?!”.
SPOILER
I did the same thing, except no way in hell was I going to let the sheriff die (I needed to get paid for defusing the bomb dammit!). At first I tried to intervene standing between the two so he wouldn’t shoot him. That worked… kinda. As soon as they got outside the sheriff dropped dead and he walked away. I eventually just shot him as he was walking out the door. No one cared, but the sheriff survived.
End Spoiler
I can’t believe the emotional impact this game is having on me. I tried playing evil, but I just couldn’t screw with these people like that. I feel bad for these people, hell if I could I’d try to do more for Big Town. You have the guard with shell shock, the people who have given up on life, etc. I’m far more involved with these peoples tragedies than I ever was with Fable 2’s or pretty much any game, these people feel like people instead of soulless mannequins.
Spoilers:
No, it’s not true at all. I notified the Sheriff, who went to arrest Burke. Got in between Burke and the Sheriff, so Burke couldn’t shoot the Sheriff in the back (reloaded from a previous spot, obviously). Gunned Burke down, took his stuff…and the Sheriff thanked me. Said he must be getting old, couldn’t believe Burke got the drop on him…
anaqer
5224
I can certainly see Kalle’s point, or at least my version of it - this is the tutorial section, where you learn (some of) the core gameplay rules. When it shows you that armed guards wearing protective gear are no match for you in mere jumper suits, how are you supposed to have an even reasonably accurate idea of the dangers awaiting you outside? (And there’s no FO2-ish copout like “I’m the Chosen One!”)
Mind you, this is also purely theoretical and I didn’t even notice it until pointed out. There’s so much going on even in the Vault, you have to be nitpicking something fierce to get hung up about it.
You aren’t unarmed–you have a decent melee weapon at that point, and a crappy gun. And your “jumpsuit” is armor. It’s not great armor, but it has a DR value higher than clothing. And it’s not like these guys are wearing power armor–they are wearing slightly upscaled versions of the Vault suit that you are wearing. You can check out the stats when you pick one up–it’s better than the jumpsuit, but it’s not great. You’ll likely pick up better armor in the wasteland in your very first human encounter. And the guards themselves are armed with the worst pistols in the game.
Even so, depending on your character build, taking out those two guards isn’t necessarily a cakewalk. I tried it with my character (who only has a 5 END), and I got slaughtered. They stay down at the end of that hallway, so they get a couple of free shots at you before you can close and start hitting them with your melee weapon. Trying to take them out with the BB gun is just suicide.
Otherwise, what’s the freaking point of them being guards. Hell, you see them gunning down two other vault dwellers who are pretty much just like you except for their inability to shrug off gunshots like they were bee stings.
The other Vault dwellers that they gun down are not like you–they actually are unarmed. And the point of the guards is that the Vault society is pretty much pacified. They don’t need a lot of heavy-handed policing, because everyone does what the Overseer tells them. I’m not sure why you are expecting these guys to be like Brotherhood of Steel enforcers–they are basically mall cops. Most of them don’t even carry guns.
Not that the intro isn’t challenging enough, which is as you say not it’s intended purpose, but that the scenario the intro takes place in is so damn stupid. It’s bad design.
Huh? The fact that the armed guards aren’t an insta-kill encounter makes the whole scenario “bad design?” Er, okay. I don’t think we’re going to agree on this one, so I guess I’ll just drop it.
Sarkus
5226
Ha ha. Funny story about that. I was replaying the intro and had the difficulty on easy just to get through it. My char was small arms tagged and I had the BB gun in hand because I was using it to kill the roaches. I used VATS and set up two shots at the head of the first guard and actually killed him with it.
Apparently you CAN hit someone in the eyes and hurt them with a BB gun!
:-)
Squee
5227
Oh, it’s in bad shape. 10mm pistol is at about 50%, shotgun is at maybe 25%. Pistol says it does 7 damage, shotgun says it does 33 damage. But in practice, the pistol seems much more effective to me.
Not sure why it seems so bad to me.
MikeJ
5228
So in the first step of finding your dad, you have to talk to Moriarty. Except that he doesn’t seem to be at his bar. When I’m in Megaton, the quest waypoint for speaking with Moriarty is some nondescript patch of ground out in the wasteland. This is, until I leave Megaton, then the quest waypoint is in Megaton. What gives?
I finally got started on Fallout 3 tonight. The section before you leave the vault is pretty cool, and I’ve explored a little bit of the wasteland and fought some raiders so far. The combat feels kinda weird, but I really love how creepy and atmospheric it feels to wander through a nuclear wasteland.
The combat is already starting to annoy me though. The guns are incredibly inaccurate, even at high levels of repair. Is this due to a low weapons skill? Enemies also dodge incredibly well, making it frustratingly hard to hit them. They also seem to never stop coming. I killed like six raiders in some ruins, and finally got annoyed and quit out of the game after I saw 3-4 more coming. Ugh.
I’m definitely looking forward to doing some more exploration though!
hong
5230
That’s just because they don’t know how to say it.
So, I played a swordsage, and it was awesome.
I have no idea about the waypoint issue, but when I couldn’t find him he was always hiding in an area accessible by a door behind the bar. (There’s another door outside that leads to it, but it’s locked.)
Yeah player skill only counts for tracking the person/limb, accuracy is the associated weapon skill. So if you have a perfect say minigun and a 5 in big weapons you likely won’t hit much.
Enemies do not respawn, so if your seeing new people they were likely either people that were in the area or were within earshot and came to investigate. You can hide from them, even if it says danger. Just stay out of eyesight and eventually it will downgrade to cautious (looking for you) and then to hidden. You can also run away, if you can dodge their bullets long enough.
anaqer
5233
Deus Ex (surely mentioning it here is nigh inevitable) tried to mix player skills with weapon proficiency, the end result being the laser sight as implemented by Shifter’s mod. I wonder how (not when) it’ll blend into VATS.
Grifman
5234
What time of day? He’s in the bae at night, wanders around during the day.
You’re correct, but just as a clarification, while enemies don’t respawn in a battle, the enemies in an area do eventually repopulate, similar to how they did in Oblivion. So you can’t wipe out all the Supermutants in the capital, for instance.
Do they, thats good to hear. All I’d been hearing from the Fallout 3 forums is that they don’t respawn.
Squee
5237
Weird. I got into the metro system to try to get to a blocked off area of downtown, and as I was fighting off roaches and feral ghouls I found… A brotherhood of steel paladin. He’s a no-name paladin with no dialog, and he’s apparently on a mission for something. He charges ahead of me in the tunnel, and if we hit a locked door, he waits for me to unlock and open it before he carries on. Not sure if I wanna let him get eaten by beasties and then try to steal his armor and drag it back to my house, or keep him alive and follow him to see what’s going on.
You can’t use his armor without special training from the Brotherhood, and it isn’t worth much in trade (probably for the same reason). So, probably not worthwhile to let him die.
Killzig
5239
I have a pretty good PA suit stashed away in Megaton. Repaired all the armor from the dead BOS from my first behemoth encounter. There’s also an NPC south of Megaton that will supply you with StimPacks/RadAway/Ammo for all the PA items you bring in, so that stuff isn’t completely useless without the perk.
Kalle
5240
It’s the same vault suit everyone else is wearing, including the people gunned down. You can strip the bodies and take theirs if you like.
The other Vault dwellers that they gun down are not like you–they actually are unarmed. And the point of the guards is that the Vault society is pretty much pacified. They don’t need a lot of heavy-handed policing, because everyone does what the Overseer tells them. I’m not sure why you are expecting these guys to be like Brotherhood of Steel enforcers–they are basically mall cops. Most of them don’t even carry guns.
When the game starts you’re a basic civilian with a BB-gun and a hefty blunt object at your disposal, and a willingness to use them. Your advantage should end at the point that guns enter the picture because guns are made to kill people. The guards aren’t equipped with BB-pistols, they’re using actual firearms. Or atleast, they appear to be.
Huh? The fact that the armed guards aren’t an insta-kill encounter makes the whole scenario “bad design?” Er, okay. I don’t think we’re going to agree on this one, so I guess I’ll just drop it.
No, putting the player in a scenario where winning is achieved through breaking established game logic is bad design. In this case, being the only guy in the vault with a bullet-proof jumpsuit and putting two guards with guns in a hallway with no way to get around them except by killing them.
