Please provide a direct quote that because I am pretty sure they didn’t say that… especially since they are still releasing maps (10 maps, 3 map variants, and 2 more in production).

World of tanks has about 30 maps (32 total maybe?) and they’ve been in development since 2009. I really don’t think their rate of adding content of this kind is really too far outside the norm for the industry.

MWO was too grindy with a poor meta game. The platform the game runs on is good and I got a good feeling of walking around in a mech. No community warfare doomed players to endless drops for… Pilot/mech level ups? C-bill grinding to allow customisation via a faster engine?

PGI screwed up with a hugely popular IP.

double post

This game has been in development since 2011… And we 10 maps. That’s just sad, especially considering that those maps aren’t really that good to begin with. They tend to play out in a fairly static manner.

What’s really funny is that PGI has now gone full orwellian, and is now banning people for posts that they make in OTHER forums other than their own, or on reddit.

That’s the only quote I was aware of. It doesn’t say what you claim, it just confirms what I posted. Maybe you don’t like the free to play business model, but that is how it works.

Let’s look at World of Tanks again! For the first 2 years of open beta + release they got up to about 10-15 maps, and that’s with longer development time and a HUGE budget & staff compared to PGI. Also: only 1 game mode for the longest time… then they added two more that everyone bitched about endlessly. Sound familiar? Their absolute bread and butter was (and still is) creating new tanks for people to grind away at (and yes, messing up the balance so that the “best tanks” constantly change. Keep people on those treadmills!!!)

PGI has done plenty of stuff wrong and they are epic failures at PR, but they seem to be successfully following the business plan that they modeled on World of Tanks.

Speaking of PGI, they just announced a new project:

http://auniversetoexplore.com/

Password: I AM HUMAN

Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Bryan Ekman, Creative Director and Co-Founder of Piranha Games. 14 years ago I founded Piranha Games with my business partner Russ Bullock to build exciting and engaging games that we love to play. Piranha is best known for our latest endeavor — MechWarrior Online, an online free-to-play giant robot combat game. MechWarrior Online’s incredibly successful Founder’s Program proved that we can work directly with our backers to help build a game for the community.

On Sep 9th, 2014 at 12:00PM PDT we invite you to join us for the reveal of our next project. It’s a big one, it’s going to be the largest production ever undertaken here at Piranha, and we want YOU to be part of it.

It’s epic, it’s online, it’s sci-fi.

Just below you will find a registration form. Filling out this form will register you for our new game and grant you an exclusive in-game item when the finished product goes live. By registering now, you can also name your Pilot – yes that’s right, pilot. Ok, no more spoilers…

I look forward to the future, and our journey to the stars.

Sincerely,

Bryan Ekman

Creative Director/Co-Founder
Piranha Games

Sure it does… it says exactly that. Maps don’t generate MC sales, so they don’t make the priority list.

But the problem is that since the number of maps is so limited, that the game has become stale… Which is going to ultimately have a major impact on player retention, which will ultimately result in a loss of MC sales.

You seem to be under the mistake impression that I’m faulting them from wanting to earn money. Not at all.

On the contrary, I’m pointing out the fact that their lack of foresight is going to cause them to EARN LESS MONEY.

While things like maps may not directly result in people throwing money at the game, they contribute to a more engaging player experience… and more engaged players throw more money at your game.

Speaking of PGI, they just announced a new project:

http://auniversetoexplore.com/

Password: I AM HUMAN

Yes, this is what’s started the most recent shitstorm in PGI’s forums (causing them to resort to draconian measures, like banning people for saying things about them outside of PGI’s forums).

As you can see from that post from Niko above, PGI has repeatedly tried to explain away their failures to produce important content and features for MWO due to a lack of development resources… and yet, now they are devoting resources to a whole new game (which, frankly, is doomed to failure).

They say that it won’t pull resources from MWO, but this is clearly false. Even when you look at Russ Bullock’s own statements, this is clearly false… He believes that if an engineer completes a task for MWO, and then you move him to AUTE, that MWO hasn’t lost any development resources (he actually said EXACTLY that). But anyone with a brain realizes that this is clearly false, since normally that engineer would then go on to do some other task for MWO, which will now go undone.

Likewise, he has stated that MWO is currently a mature product, and that at this point development is just “more of the same” as stuff done for the past 3 years. But this is clearly false, given that they are slated to be introducing “Community Warfare” which is an entirely new feature set… And anyone who has seen the current user interface for MWO knows that it’s anything other than mature. It’s, quite literally, the worst interface I’ve seen on any game in the past 10 years… Maybe further back than that.

The only thing keeping them going at this point is the fact they’re holding the Battletech IP hostage… which is why their new game is doomed to fail in an absolutely epic fashion. They’re going to be going up against Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous… two games made by folks who have made some of the most loved games of all time. PGI’s got the multiplayer for Duke Nukem Forever, and MWO which is basically a litany of things NOT to do when engaging your player base.

No, it says they have lower priority. I mean they are still clearly working on maps. It’s just not the number 1 priority.

But the problem is that since the number of maps is so limited, that the game has become stale… Which is going to ultimately have a major impact on player retention, which will ultimately result in a loss of MC sales.

Hey i want more maps. EVERYONE wants more maps, even when there are 20 or 40 or 100. Give us more maps!

Nevertheless the rate of map production seems pretty normal. WoT didn’t die because limited maps and only 1 game mode (and overall less interesting gameplay!). In fact it flourished. So I am not sure this is genuinely a big problem for them.

On the contrary, I’m pointing out the fact that their lack of foresight is going to cause them to EARN LESS MONEY.

Maybe, but probably not. As an industry outsider, I can only go by what the success stories are doing, and they are doing very similar things in terms of pricing and content.

While things like maps may not directly result in people throwing money at the game, they contribute to a more engaging player experience… and more engaged players throw more money at your game.

I very much agree, there is a balance to be struck.

Yes, this is what’s started the most recent shitstorm in PGI’s forums (causing them to resort to draconian measures, like banning people for saying things about them outside of PGI’s forums).

We have only one pretty suspect guy’s word that that happened. Though even if it did I don’t care in the slightest about PGI or any other companies’ forum moderation policies. They can permaban shit disturbers, why not? It’s their forum. It’s not like I visit it myself more than once in a blue moon.

As you can see from that post from Niko above, PGI has repeatedly tried to explain away their failures to produce important content and features for MWO due to a lack of development resources… and yet, now they are devoting resources to a whole new game (which, frankly, is doomed to failure).

I’ll agree on the doomed to failure part but it’s clear they have a new source of funding specifically for this new game. They have said that all MWO profits get folded back into MWO development and operating costs, which only makes good accounting and legal sense, esp. since MWO was partly crowdfunded. Maybe they are lying but they’d be really dumb to do it otherwise.

They say that it won’t pull resources from MWO, but this is clearly false. Even when you look at Russ Bullock’s own statements, this is clearly false… He believes that if an engineer completes a task for MWO, and then you move him to AUTE, that MWO hasn’t lost any development resources (he actually said EXACTLY that). But anyone with a brain realizes that this is clearly false, since normally that engineer would then go on to do some other task for MWO, which will now go undone.

No Russ is correct actually… As long as the money & resources are being correctly apportioned and time properly tracked. MWO staffing and resources are going to depend on MWO’s income, I imagine that will vary as the months go on.

Generally though, yeah, I don’t really see what this new game could possibly offer, and I think it will tank pretty hard. Hopefully PGI will survive it and have the same kind of “come to jesus” moment CCP had after the Incarna/White Wolf debacle.

maps or no maps, the lack of progress on CW and the fubar’d condition and delay of ui 2.0 still piss me off

Mechwarrior Online didn’t have the success they expected. Now it’s time to cut losses and bet for something new.

Yeah, not enough people dropped $500 on Clan mechs.

$500.

If anyone bothers they can see I ranted about this previously but it still blows my mind…

“Hmmm, any 5-7 AAA titles when not on sale, a shit-ton of regular/sale games or give $500 to PGI for a few mechs…”

Hey now, PGI worked on a few AAA titles… Perhaps you’ve heard of a little game called DUKE NUKEM FOREVER?

Hmm they are going to try to crowdfund this 2nd game as well. It’s even deader than I thought.

Still should be an object lesson for them, one would hope.

There’s a really easy way to tell if a F2P strategy is working. Does the game make money? If it is making money, their approach, however we like or dislike it, is working. If it’s not making money, the approach isn’t working. Pretty much it comes down to that. For all the constant complaining (much of it justified) about the way World of Tanks works–not about the F2P monetization but the whole game structure/dynamics/balance really–the game still brings in lots of money it seems, so from Wargaming’s perspective it’s all good. The problem is that for players, a successful F2P strategy does not always, or even usually, mean a great game based on how traditional game players determine such things. The priorities are really different between a single-sale stand alone game and a continuously evolved F2P product.

With this product if it didn’t have the Battletech/Mechwarrior IP it would not have done as well. People invested in the game for the IP first and PGI/the game second.

Again, would anyone invest $500 for random giant robots the design team made and gave cool sounding names to? Of course not, but they might for Clan Mechs.

Very few would or did (or could!). I am sure less than 300.

MWO’s problem is that they launched too soon. They should have just kept selling mechs, promising great new game features and collecting money. You know, the Star Citizen model.

Pirhana’s problem is they delivered a game, and people were disappointed with the features. It’s always better anticipating the game as it could be, rather than be disappointed in what it ultimately is.

;-)

I really hope few people paid $500 for their virtual stompy robots. Just to maintain some semblance of hope in humanity, you know.

But all can be summarized in PGI’s actions: Are they updating the game or are they leaving it for a new game in development? If it’s the first case, then they are having profits, if it’s the second case, the profits are dying already.

Although I don’t personally condone effectively selling a unique skin or such a ridiculous price, Star Citizen started that crazy trend and I am guessing we will see more of it to come in this game and others.

Russ Bullock did a 3.5 hour townhall last night where he went into quite a lot of detail about what was happening:

  • new game not funded by MWO money
  • new game funded by other sources (incl. government) and has been a small prototype team since January
  • MWO get all of MWO’s income folded back in
  • MWO keeps going as long as people keep showing an interest (via purchases)
  • the intention is to continue developing large additional features for MWO
  • PGI has 6 years left on the license and intend to keep renewing as long as they are allowed
  • Long term Russ wants to develop a single player/co-op component like he had originally wanted

He also covered in detail the relationship between PGI and IGP and how and why that has now ended. Pretty interesting. He threw IP under the bus for a few things.

Yeah, they better renew, because at the pace they have been going, getting a SP component in there is going to take waaay longer than that.

I really liked this game when it came out. I spend about $120 on it, way more than in any other F2P (I don’t play them often) except Rise of Flight (and that’s a completely different model anyway. The base game they developed is sound, as are the production values.

But there has been very, very, very little content generated in this time, both in terms of cosmetic or new features. Which is a problem because they promised an interesting metagame that now I think they will never deliver. I haven’t played in a long while, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it. I do wonder how many people work on the team, because it seems really small if this is all the content they can feasibly deliver. As things stand it feels like an awesome foundation developed into a really limited and limiting experience.

The original pricing and payment model was ok enough. You could slowly get new mechs and by paying for premium time the grind was very bearable. But they did jump the shark with new mechs. Which I understand, since they believe they need to be profitable (even if I’m out, thanks), but I still think the potential for this game to be a tremendous success was incredible, and that is was hampered by unwise business decisions. Had they invested in some sort of SP/dynamic campaign component (not even some fancy cutscene driven thing, just an RPG-lite open campaign) I’m sure they could have expanded their playerbase.

Growth also factors in this equation, since it signals your ability to grow and keep your income. Judging at player numbers (forum accounts, which I believe are mandatory for playing), their growth is negligible, so all that’s left is to bleed dry whoever they have left and slowly watching them go. Even if they are making money now, their game is not sustainable without growth, and with such an aggressive business model, growth is hard to achieve. They are cashing out and assuming profits are going to eventually disappear. Otherwise they would be trying to get new players, but there’s no indication they are trying to do that at all.