1761

Well, that’s the starmap, although I don’t know what that specific program was.

NBT and UTS had web-based interfaces for dealing with the starmap. Since the starmap itself is defined in battletech, I would assume that MWO will incorporate the same map.

Ah, looks like NBT’s site is back up… and here’s a link to their oldinteractive starmap.

In terms of certain units dominating, ya, there were definitely teams which were much stronger than others. Some of the better units were merc units though, and as such were able to be hired out by some of the other units to fight.

Also, given how many units there were, a single unit couldn’t really just take over everything… There were lots of units that we never even got a chance to fight, just because they were on some other part of the map, which we never bothered interacting with.

1762

While I agree that ECM is powerful, it really was an end to the endless missile spam that was such a pain before, you could hardly move.

I think that ECM works more or less as intended, and is a vital tool now, I have a 4x 20LRM stalker that still is a powerhouse, it just can’t play point and click…

However get within 750m of me and I get my tag on you, the ECM is not going to save you…and at 750M there is nothing that will outdamage 4x20LRM’s.

1763

Individual Lock-on should be different from shared lock-on, the shared one (that allows for teammates to fire at someone they don’t have contact with) should be slower to get. That would be a better solution to missile spam.

1764

While I do see less missile spam, it’s still what kills me half the time–when my side doesn’t have ECM. That’s the problem overall I have with this game–note, I said I have, not that it’s a problem necessarily with the game–really; the game seems nearly totally optimized for team play and not for individuals. As I have no time or inclination to find a regular group or even to troll around in teamspeak for lances, and only really want to jump in for some battles, it is getting pretty clear this isn’t a game designed for my interests after all. If was in to regular groups and spending time hooking up with players, I guess it would work a lot better. Going solo is a death sentence most of the time for me.

Then again, I’m also coming to the conclusion that pretty much everyone here is just a lot better than I am at this game. Usually I turn a corner and am instantly gibbed by four other mechs.

1765

I agree it’s designed for teamplay and grouping on voice is better. Yet there are lots of HUGE free voice servers with many casual random pickup 4 man teams. The one I listed earlier has 200 user limit and there are usually quite a few teams playing 4 man groups. It usually only takes a few seconds or minutes to get into a group. There’s zero pressure to be good or be a regular. I think the Comstar NA TS3 server is 500 user limit. It’s not hard to find a group at all, you don’t even need a mic. Just tell people you will listen.

Last night I played with just one team mate and we barely talked because my mic was fucked up. Yet we went something like 10-2 in the games we played with minimal teamplay. What I’ve learned over time is this, if you are below average skill wise you probably want to take a light or medium mech so you don’t drag down the team as much (PUG games are matched weight class to weight class on each team). If you are good you want a heavy or assault mech to amplify your skill contribution to the team. There’s nothing worse than having your team drop in trial assault mechs so new players are the core tonnage of the team.

TheWombat: BTW what mechs and builds are you using?

1766

Its two teams fighting it out, teamplay is kinda in the description…I daresay you have to work to find a game that uses teams where teamplay won’t really make a huge difference.

That said, I find a lot of my fights to be 1-1 on affairs, particularly in a brawler mech or light mechs…

1767

Maybe if you don’t count MWLL.

1768

For being a game for team play, it doesn’t provide or the needed tools for it, like :

  1. a setup game lobby screen where people can talk and choose their mechs together
  2. a voice system like in Tribes Ascend or Smite (V menu)
  3. possibility of pinging the minimap
  4. more facilities to use the strategic map (I sitll haven’t see anyone using it)
1769

I’m sure my builds are sub-optimal, as I find the in-game mechlab awful and can’t be bothered to round up out of game resources much. And yes, I acknowledge it’s a team game, but no more so really than any side vs side FPS like Battlefield or Day of Defeat or what not, and those games worked a lot better in terms of going solo. I’m appreciative of the availability of out of game ways to round up groups, but again, all I want or have time to do is log in an play a few matches, and the game’s structure, as TurinTur notes, doesn’t really support that very well.

I think it’s great that people are finding it suitable to their playstyles. I’m just not enthused about it, despite being a founder and all.

1770

MWO crushes MWLL in terms of depth.

Did MWLL even have a mechlab?

1771

No, they never implemented that, sadly 0.7 is the final release so it’s not gonna happen. It does have way more mechs than MWO and a ton of predefined setups though.
That and bigger maps, 32 player servers, tanks, hovercrafts, elementals and VTOLs.

1772

See, to me, the combined arms aspect doesn’t actually add depth, it just adds more stuff… and really, I never liked any of that junk. It detracted from the game.

And without a mechlab, it wasn’t really a mechwarrior game to me.

MWO has, to date, done an exceptionally good job of modeling the mechs themselves. They’ve implemented more of the mech construction than any prior mechwarrior title.

1773

Yes, I agree, the feel of the game is REALLY spot on, the mechs behave like they should, and the sheer impact of the weapons is truly phenomenal. You don’t have to guess what hit you, you know instantly…

Not to mention the sparks those AC weapons, particularly the AC 10 and 20 give off when they connect…

Its a beautiful terror.

1774

I see these as nit picks, because no matter what they develop joining a voice server and grouping yourself is much better. A lobby would be nice but we also rarely plan our mechs, we just use whatever on voice. People are usually grinding their next mech, not using their best one. Hawken has great voice support, yet hardly anyone uses it or you get some guy screaming or breathing into the mic all match. In Tribes Ascend people use the V system to troll and spam 90% of the time. You can use the strategic map yourself if you want, open it up and take command, then start putting things on the map. I’ve never used it myself but it can help in uncoordinated matches. I find chat as useful as the command system. They have put in a friend and group system to help people who use voice servers so that’s obviously encouraged. If you watch the IGP MWO stream - www.twitch.tv/IGP - they play in 4 man groups on voice (the developers are on it sometimes).

Well, I asked because I see some people running around with terrible builds and it’s pretty easy to avoid it with some help. Not saying you are but that could be one issue.

I’m trying to figure out what this comment means. Were you better in those games or was there easier competition? Or something else entirely?

I guess I’ll stop bugging you because it just seems like you don’t want to fix your problems. I asked you about mech builds and you didn’t provide much info so I can’t help. I suggested trying a voice server but you are convinced 10 seconds is too much of your time to attempt it. Last night I joined a voice server was in a group in 3 seconds and played about 6 matches before leaving. I only vaguely knew one guy in the group, yet we did fine. All that is required is joining a voice channel with less than 4 people, saying “hey do you need 1 more?”, then once they say yes (95% of the time), then you add them as friends in game and they invite you to the group. It literally can take less than a minute.

I understand not wanting to use a voice server myself. I never wanted to use one in Tribes Ascend (and I didn’t) but the main reason for that was it took a lot more dedication than MWO. In T:A people wanted you to join their team, practice, play scrims, and play a certain class, etc. T:A didn’t really have random pickup groups to go grind but MWO does and they are very casual. T:A was very competitive focused on voice servers compared to MWO.

I just think you guys might be expecting too much and/or blaming dumb stuff (groups, ECM, etc) for how good others are doing (while not trying it voice yourselves). I’m hardly a MW wunderkind, I never played any of the other titles online and I started out in MWO doing very poorly. Yet my KDR ratio has rose from a paltry 0.4 to 1.46 (and still going up steadily). Having good builds and team mates helps a lot but I also find it makes the game more fun. If you refuse to use the resources available you can’t really complain about it either. It’d be like playing Dark Souls offline and refusing to use the wikis then bitching everything is too hard.

1775

yeah, except I just play public matches with unknown people, like most players do. So no, not nitpicks, but essentials tools to promote teamplay without voice comms.

1776

The problem with MWO is that it’s UI is terrible. The great thing about World of Tanks, is that they do their damnedest to show massive amounts of information without overwhelming the player so that it’s very easy to coordinate without having to find a group or even use voice chat. (Hell, I don’t even play with sound all the time)

Most team games out there do this fairly well, and it’s ridiculous how behind the times MWO’s HUD is. I don’t want to, nor should I have to, group up to have fun.

Also, the Mechlab is a bit of a trap, as even though you have a huge variety of stuff to choose from, the number of optimal builds per variant is actually very small, and some variants are just sup par. So yay, one can muck around, but they’re better off searching the web for one of the ‘best’ builds? This is also extra douchey because the sell value for mechs is anemic, so buy the wrong variant, realize you don’t like it and you just wasted a huge chunk of cash.

My opinion is that a game should be able to stand on its own without having to go to an external website to learn how to play or to organize a group. And in that sense MWO is the biggest failure I’ve ever seen.

1777

I should point out that one player can take the commander role and mark the minimap.

Also, as someone who postly just lone wolfs it, the ingame chat and commander functions are just fine if people can be bothered to use them.

I for one really don’t miss the old style game browser lobby systems where you setup a game and slowly try to populate it. It’s just not worthwhile for a game which is over in under 10 minutes 95% of the time.

1778

I appreciate your help, and your interest in being a good ambassador here. I do think you sort of misunderstand my position though. I’m not complaining about the game, or even suggesting that it necessarily should be any different (other than a better UI and stuff like that) for what it is. I’m just pointing out that, for me, it’s not compelling right now. In other FPS games I just logged into a server, got dumped onto whatever team I got dumped on to, and managed to have competitive play and do pretty well. In MWO, following the same approach, I get trounced usually and the small teams are much, much more sensitive to premades than larger teams. Again, not necessarily a problem except it doesn’t fit my style right now. I don’t want help really, because I’m not that into the game at this point.

I am very used to using voice in games; in MMOs I’ve been in many raids and worked with many guilds in TS and Vent, and was very happy we had voice. At this point in my gaming life though I’m not really into that much effort. I’m not interested enough in the core gameplay to do what you are suggesting–though I freely admit what you suggest is a logical thing to do. So again, I’m not complaining, just noting that this game pretty much requires you to do anything except simply log in and play PUGs.

As to talking about my builds, I can’t remember them, and I’d have to open up the game and root around in the Mech Lab to figure out what I’m running. Which I finally did…all have stock engines:

HBK-4G
1xGauss Rifle
2xML
1xAMS
Standard HS
Endo

HBK-4P
2xLL
2xML
1xAMS
Double HS

CTF-4X
4xAC/2
2xML
1xAMS
Endo

HBK-4J
2xML
1xLPL
1xSRM6
Endo

Flame
2xPPC
2xML
1xAMS
Double HS
Endo

plus a couple of lights I don’t play really.

1779

The minimap is awful, it’s too zoomed in, and isn’t easy to ping, and doesn’t differentiate between mech types. WoT has a really great map, one can see at a glance how one’s forces are laid out, whether too many heavies went in one direction, where the arty is, and how far folks are from a base, and it’s very easy to ping the map. It’s very easy to coordinate without actually doing anything other than looking at the map.

It’s totally awkward that one has to go to the separate commander screen to see a full minimap.

1780

To put it in more high level terms, a Versus multiplayer game, these days they should do two things well:

  1. Organic teamplay. It should be easy and natural to work as a team, even with just minimal communication. This can be fostered with HUDs that display the right amount of information succinctly. (Other games can do other things, like BF’s spawning on a group leader, etc)

  2. A nice sliding difficulty curve for introducing players and gearing players up to fighting against more skilled players (with or without better/more equipment) Basically, new players should be able to have fun even if they don’t know everything. They should be able to experiment and learn organically, and not by just grabbing the latest power build from a website. And they should be able to grow and learn at their own pace without having to worry too much about improving as fast as possible.

MWO fails so hard on these points, and though they should be able to fix both, eventually. They just need a decent minimap, better weapon balance, and matchmaking based on skill (or at least stick trial mechs on a different queue, or have trial mechs be generated from the top five most successfully played variants from the previous week, etc)