No thread about the Oregon Wildlife Refuge standoff?


#301

If you want to pretend he said something other than what he did and substitute your own interpretation, be my guest.


#302

He didn’t strike me as the most intelligent individual. I think foster care actually offers a reimbursement rate that is not taxable income… but somehow I am not surprised an armed man in the middle of winter holding up a federal building with a bunch other people asking for snacks and trying to do justice for the people didn’t go into minute details as to what he was doing with his foster children.


#303

Today Cliven Bundy was denied bail, which should surprise absolutely no one because he is pretty much the definition of “flight risk” if you describe “flight” as running to his bunker-like compound and surrounding himself with armed thugs.

More interesting was the description of his operation. I wasn’t too familiar with the particulars of Cliven Bundy’s activities other than the generic “armed stand-off with feds” descriptor, but some of the things described in court today were fascinating:

Hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land called the Gold Butte surrounds [Bundy’s] ranch.

“Bundy uses that entire range of land to graze his cattle unlawfully,” prosecutor said in court papers. “While Bundy claims he is a cattle rancher, his ranching operation – to the extent it can be called that – is unconventional if not bizarre.”

Bundy allows his cattle to “run wild on the public lands with little, if any, human interaction until such time he traps them and hauls them off to be sold or slaughtered for his own consumption,” prosecutors said.

Bundy allegedly doesn’t vaccinate or treat his cattle for disease and doesn’t employ cowboys to herd them, so he “has to bait them into traps in order to gather them,” prosecutors said.

“Bereft of human interaction, his cattle that manage to survive are wild, mean and ornery,” prosecutors said.

In 2014, at the time of his alleged crimes, more than 1,000 head strayed as far as 50 miles from his ranch and into the Lake Mead National Recreational Area, “getting stuck in mud, wandering onto golf courses, straying onto the freeway (causing accidents on occasion),” authorities said in documents.


#304

That is bizarre, and he doesn’t sell them? So what sort of income does he really have then?


#305

He sells them. He just… doesn’t do much else apparently.


#306

Oh you’re right. I misread that. I wonder how many looses to the “wild” then if they’re just left unmanaged like that.


#307

The idea of wild cows is kind of awesome. I didn’t even realize cattle were still fit enough to do that without humans caring for them.


#308

Bulls weigh over a ton, they all have horns, and travel in groups. If they were carnivores, we’d be sending the army out there.

Wild cows do sound awesome though.


#309

Blizzard should really rename the secret cow level to Bundy Ranch in his honor.


#310

The cow level is a lie


#311

Well there aren’t a whole lot of predators left, much less ones capable of dealing with an animal that large. Add in some bulls and not much would fuck with them.


#312

The Oregon standoff is over but militia left something on the refuge: their poop

The armed militia in Oregon left behind “significant amounts of human feces” and dug trenches filled with waste on wildlife refuge grounds that contained sensitive Native American artifacts, according to the FBI.


#313

Why are you so determined to defend these psychopaths? Do you put this much effort into defending gun toting, America hating Muslims? The guy said two things:
#1 The kids were his primary source of income.
#2 He put the kids to work on his ranch.

So if he no longer has to pay for help to feed and water the cows, round them up, scoop and their poop etc etc. He’s not paying for ranch hands AND he’s getting extra money. He was maybe more troubled and delusional than the kids he brought in. The guy found a way to take advantage of the system, and since they were termed “troubled” any time some issue went down I’m sure they listened to finicum and not the kids.

Let’s put it another way. What if a shoe manufacturer were bringing in kids to work in his factory. This was the only way he could be profitable. He claims its to “build character”, the kids don’t get paid a dime. Do you see something wrong with this? Yes, you should, and it’s the same situation. Claiming that free labor is OK because working with cows looks more romantic than sitting in factory is not right.


#314

The armed militia in Oregon left behind “significant amounts of human feces” and dug trenches filled with waste on wildlife refuge grounds that contained sensitive Native American artifacts, according to the FBI.

Well geez, what self-respecting artifact [I]wouldn’t[/I] be sensitive about having poo dumped on it?


#315

the kids being his primary source of income is a bigger deal to me than him “putting them to work” on his ranch. I think the idea of taking troubled kids and teaching them responsibility by giving them chores on a ranch/farm is pretty common and done in many places. Unless he has the kids leading cattle drives and fighting off Indians.


#316

Yes?
I’m sorry, but I’m not going to condemn someone for abusing kids when there is literally no evidence to suggest such a thing.

I don’t like the idea of blaming someone for crimes on the basis of their having been a jackass who committed other crimes.

Also, you realize that in no way have I ever supported any of the actions taken by this guy or any of the guys who occupied the wildlife refuge, right?

Was there some reason for your suggestion there that I was somehow anti Muslim?


#317

Well he said the Ranch basically paid for itself or just covered itself… so I would assume any l loans he had on the place are covered and basic upkeep so if by income he meant above and beyond the cost of maintaining the ranch, I was fine with that. i am assuming a ranch designed for more than an older couple but can reasonably accommodate some foster kids would cost more, and then food and clothes, those things of course would.

I am assuming he was fine in that area only because we haven’t heard otherwise. It’s not so much a defense as a… where did we hear otherwise?


#318

Woo, one of the occupiers, Shawna Cox, filed suit against the government looking for damages due to “works of the devil.” Her suit is looking for $666,666,666,666.66 in damages, which sounds perfectly reasonable when the defendants are devil worshippers.

The claim is a doozy: http://www.scribd.com/doc/299598492/Shawna-Cox-s-claim-for-damages

The judge, naturally, threw it out.


#319

Yeah, that doesn’t sound too crazy at all.


#320

The report from Finicum’s death has been released. The Oregon State Police were justified in using lethal force (not that the investigation will convince the most ardent supporters).

But some FBI agents are implicated in a coverup. It appears an agent fired two times and covered it up. The shots never hit Finicum but the coverup is being investigated.