(NSFW) So you want that fur coat? EDIT- China Responds

Look further into PETA and their fundamental beliefs. The core and founding members of PETA are scary, scary people, and the organization’s encouraged mindset resembles a cult more than anything else. These are people who believe keeping animals as pets qualifies as a form of slavery, and several of them would not see killing a pet owner to “free” his/her pet as being an immoral act.

When the core is that rotten, I don’t trust the rest of the organization any further.

And that makes PETA a terrorist organization?

OK, when did you exactly live in Singapore?
Cause I don’t ever remember them doing that anywhere.

Jason: you’re going out of your way to defend PETA for actions that clearly cross the line. The ALF is an organization that has not yet killed anyone, but they have caused millions (about 50 so far) in damages to property. Rod Coronado is another guy who has links to the ALF and he is a convicted arsonist who has burned down a lot of stuff including University buildings.

You ask how PETA is connected to these types of people? PETA contributed 45k to Coronado’s defense fund (He was still put in prison). They loaned his father a large amount of money with no interest and not expecting to be paid back. Rod’s father claims he wasn’t anything but a front, and that the money was payment for conducting an arson attack.

So PETA pays/supports/defends people for burning down buildings PAID FOR BY YOUR TAX DOLLARS (including ranger stations, University buildings, and government property). If I pay some guy to burn your house down, you can bet I will be held criminally liable. The same should apply to PETA.

EDIT: Secondly, approving of these actions (firebombings, property destruction, death threats) is wrong because we have a system in the United States to redress conflicts between belief systems. It’s called the government and the media. Thinking it’s ok to destroy property because the owners of that property disagree with you is insane. Should it be ok for the KKK to burn down synagogues and NAACP buildings? According to the KKK these are “moral outrages”. Arson for political motivations is terrorism, plain and simple, and by paying terrorists to commit terrorist actions, you become a terrorist yourself.

If that money was payment for conducting an arson attack, then PETA should be prosecuted and the responsible people put in jail.

However, note that your accusations ARE UNSOURCED AND NOT IN A COURT OF LAW, to reuse your capitalization. I’ve heard a long list of things they’ve supposedly done for a long time; remarkably, they’re rarely, if ever, convicted of them.

I’m “going out of my way to defend them” because I’m getting pretty fucking tired of the accusation “terrorist” flung around, especially at a group that the “moderate” animal rights movement couldn’t get shit done without. Someone’s got to get the videotapes of them bashing research monkey skulls’ in. Someone’s got to shock so the moderate groups can get laws the passed. The self-satisified moral outrage about them is ridiculous.

Unsourced? Do a google search for “Rod Coronado” and PETA. Then you can look at PETA’s financial records (They are public information) and find the payments. These are facts, not “allegations”. I’m sure in PETA’s financials it doesn’t say “Payment for Arson”, but the mob doesn’t write down “Payment for whacking Eddie Two-Face”, and they manage to get convicted. It is a FACT that PETA put up 45,000 for Coronado’s defense in his arson case. Just because they haven’t been found guilty in a court of law doesn’t mean they haven’t done anything wrong.

Claiming that the ends justify the means is the oldest trick in the book to justify immoral actions. Italian fascism certainly had some benefits (The trains ran on time), but I think it is fairly clear that facism wasn’t an upstanding example of human rights. Shocking pictures and words are good because they get laws made? How about when groups want to ban video games and talk about killing hookers in grand theft auto and talk about Columbine being caused by GTA? What about “Reefer Madness”, depicting marijuana users going nuts and killing people? Blatant lies and propaganda are just fine, as long as your intentions are good? I could show pictures of Rwanda in my KKK ad campaign to show why we should kick black people out of the country. I could show mangled fetuses to get anti-abortion laws made. Lying, hyperbole, and invalid comparisons aren’t the right way to make change. The right way is compromise and communication, not scare tactics and arson. If I were to say “Hey everyone, Jason rapes children, I have young Jenny here saying that he kidnapped her and stuck her in dungeon he built in his garage!”, and took out full page ads in the paper, would it be a reasonable or ethical way to win an argument on qt3? No. Likewise, PETA’s absurd and misleading methods of persuasion are not laudable.

So define terrorst for me. Burning down buildings (in one case an occupied building)? Paying someone to burn down buildings? Pointing out targets? If I gave Bin Laden a grand for plane tickets, I’m not morally culpable? If I called the World Trade Center first to warn them and then blew it up, it’s all good?

The truth is that PETA is an organization which hurts the animal rights movement. Their insane antics shed a bad light on everyone else involved in animal rights, and their unreasoning ideology alienates potential help. Many legitimate animal rights groups disown PETA. They condone violence, they lie, and they have no moral qualms about it. To a reasonable person, PETA is a as reprehensible as the Nazi party, the KKK, Al Quaida, or the Right to Lifers. If you can’t see that, I can only conclude you aren’t a reasonable person either.

PETA’s own impenetrably self-satisfied moral outrage is half of why people hate them.

The other half is their evident joy in making public statements like “A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy,” publishing ads equating chicken farms to Nazi death camps (“The Holocaust on your plate”), and putting out a press release immediately after 9-11 urging people to lobby Giuliani to do more about the “companion animals” orphaned or stressed out by the attacks — that press release was right up there with Falwell and Robertson blaming the attacks on abortionists. They’re as obnoxious about their cause as they could possibly be, and that makes hatred for them inevitable — as they know very well. Why would an ordinary person accept a burden of shame from an organization that obviously knows no shame themselves?

The idea that I, as a potential convert, am going to be more receptive to animal-rights moderates after PETA shocks me into awareness with rhetoric and vandalism just ain’t gonna fly. First, you might as well argue that pro-life groups “have to” vandalize abortion clinics to raise awareness of their own cause. Second, I’m actually going to be LESS receptive to those moderates, just as I’m less receptive to moderate conservatives after I hear reactionary screwballs spewing vitriol about God hating fags, etc.

I’m not claiming the ends justify the means; they don’t. I’m complaining that your “clear proof” isn’t.

http://www.jeanettestaxidermy.com/pet_pillows.html

John, historically I think movements work like this:

  1. The extremists scare the hell out of everyone.
  2. However, they get the issue out there where people pay attention to it.
  3. The moderates condemn the extremists.
  4. A coalition of “reasonable people” passes moderate reforms.

Maybe I’m wrong about this, great. That still doesn’t make PETA “terrorists”, any more than givng money to Sein Fein back during the Troubles made everyone a terrorist.

That’s a sensible model, but if it were true all movements would tend toward moderation over time, and I don’t think they do.

Erm…I would call Sinn Fein donors funders of terrorism, for sure. The IRA’s no-warning bombings of civilian sites in Britain weren’t exactly unknown to the public.

PETA I wouldn’t call terrorists…but I don’t think it’s ridiculous to do so. If we credit them with the ALF’s actions (ALF:PETA::IRA:Sinn Fein), then they commit crimes (destruction of property) in order to influence public political opinion, whereas terrorists commit violent crimes in order to influence public political opinion. The ALF’s crimes haven’t been violent, but they aren’t exactly civil disobedience either.

But my original point was that it’s not ridiculous to hate PETA. “A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy” was a statement intended to offend humans, and it worked.

Ok, hate away, it’s a free country. :)

I hope not. He had a nice piece of mea^H^H^Hyoung lady on his arm at my party last weekend.[/quote]
I’ll pass that compliment along, shif - in its first draft, MOOHOOHAHA. She commented on what a nice guy you are. OOPS DID I SPOIL YOUR CRED? And who was the other guy from Qt3 there? Hido? he was cool, too. "Vegas"Robb was not (in that he wasn’t there), I’M THINKING HE LIVES IN DUBUQUE. The owner of the condo was very gracious as well. We actually would have stayed longer but her cat was giving my friend and my other friend’s girlfriend allergic-type problems.

While we’re bandying about compliments, I must say you are a man who can hold his liquor. If I’d drank what you had, after such a spell of teetoalling, I’d be less inclined to invite my guests in politely and talk with civility and good humor and more likely to blurt out NICE TITS MA’AM MAY I BARF ON YOUR CROTCH and punch myself in the face.

OH AND BY THE BY, you preverts, I talk more about beating off because I’m doing so much less of it, instead of more. I’m old and I have to keep the ol’ pistol primed, or what the fuck ever. I can’t be indiscriminately wasting Money Shots like I used to. It’s so sad; when I was 13, I had nothing but Battletech comics and the JCPenney catalog. Now, it’s like HI WANT TO BEAT OFF TO ME and my dick just moans and says Come on pal, I’m not made of solid iron with a bottomless jizz aquifer. You want to have your little fun now and come up short later? ‘Cause we can do it like that if you wanna. Just sayin’.

Okay, back to McCullough’s P&R Soapbox Rally.

Bitterman-
I’m completely unwilling to lump Nazis, the KKK, Al Qaeda, PETA, and Right to Lifers together. Anyone who does so is absolutely not “reasonable”.