No kidding - this is the case for NWN1, as well. A lot of low level adventures and campaign series that want you to start a new character from scratch and then take you maybe into the mid-teens at most. Of course, there’s so freaking many good NWN1 modules at this point that you can still find some decent higher level stuff. And some of the “play this with a new character” modules don’t enforce that, which meant that I played through, say, Penultima and Penultima Rerolled with my level 20 or so monk from the NWN1 original campaign (back when I didn’t know to stay the hell away from that piece of crap. Folks can hate on NWN2’s OC all they like, but it’s fucking Shakespeare compared to the one in NWN1.). The combat was, um, nonchallenging, most of the way through. But I wasn’t playing for challenging combat.
As mentioned before, no I meant Pen and Paper. In the original ruleset some of the PrCs and classes were designed differently, and Obsidian decided to make concessions or changes to make them easier or faster to implement for their game engine.
Just an FYI, but the Tony_K AI mod also affects ENEMY AI too so they are now formidable opponents-- spellcasters don’t nuke their friends, and monsters and special races all use their racial abilities if they are available for use.
I believe the 3.9+ versions of Reeron’s mod will also let you summon arbitrary numbers of conjured monsters. Which is awesome.
Aeon221 / caesarbear,
Do you guys react this strongly whenever someone criticizes an alpha/beta of your favourite game franchise? If someone calls a beta a beta (or, god forbid, buggy!) you’re going to call them whiners too?
One would hope you could tell the difference between complaints/whining and expression of opinion.
Maybe I’m not supposed to offer any criticism because it’s free? Well then I guess we can’t possibly criticize game demos, right? If somebody tries one and doesn’t like it, is that OK with you guys?
Please, grow a thicker skin.
Hey hey, stop “complaining/whining”. You’re starting to sound like me:
Or are only your posts allowed to contain negative statements about fan based modules?
Yeah I’m looking forward to that one. As I should’ve said in my initial post, this game needs more good content, with some length, created by professional teams.
Ideally, it needs another expansion from Obsidian. Or, can someone just hit me very hard on the head in just the right place so I lose all memory of MoTB and can re-experience it?
I, um, was talking about taking a level 20 monk in NWN 1 through a campaign that was designed for levels 1 through, oh, 18 or so.
If you don’t see a difference, you need some bifocals. You essentially called the modding community a big steaming pile of poo. I mentioned the lack of higher level content while stating quite clearly that I APPRECIATED all their HARD WORK done FOR FREE, and considered much of it of high quality. You didn’t offer criticism, you were just plain old being a dick.
And now for anecdote time! I was active in some major projects for Civ (Rhye’s of Civ and Rhye’s and Fall of Civ were the two big ones I helped on, but I was around for ElJusto’s Cold War mod, a few of Lulongs kick ass scenarios, to name a few of the better known ones) and I understand exactly how it feels to put your b.s.t.t. into something only to have some internet cockup belittle it by acting like you should be producing triple A quality scenarios for free in your spare time. Anecdote time over!
In more general terms, shitting on the modding community is about the meanest and most retarded thing someone can do in the context of gaming, so expect to get reamed* when you do it. Be happy it was me that took aim and not someone with a bigger e-peen.
*yelled at, not anilingus. perv.
Here are the NWN2 modules that I can stand thus far (as someone who hated the NWN2 OC.) Not many, but they exist:
- Dark Waters (Spotty voice acting, lots of bugs, but good writing and original premise. Worth a look.)
- Pools of Radiance Remastered (Linear, but very solid.)
- The Birthday (Very good, but only about an hour long.)
- Harp & Chrysanthemum (Just released; very sharp; likely the best module out there. Check it out.)
Everything else is not very compelling, so sample further at your own peril - this includes anything else in the “hall of fame.” The issues are generally the same: sloppy grammar/syntax, uninspired writing, and bad area design. You can get at least a few days of good entertainment out of the modules I’ve linked, I would say, so the toolkit has not been a total waste even at this point.
Maybe, but then those creators are paid professionals.
One would hope you could tell the difference between complaints/whining and expression of opinion.
Yeah, we could give a shit about your expressions. Although many of us, including the builders themselves, would like to hear your constructive complaints.
Maybe I’m not supposed to offer any criticism because it’s free?
Ok, let me try to put this simply: You suck at criticism.
If you weren’t so defensive you might realize that I’m asking you to try out some of that “expression of opinion” towards the builders themselves. Have you? Have you given any NWN builder any of your opinions directly?
I’m sorry to say that I’ve noticed there is a bug or two in 1.11 patch that may end up getting hotfixed, not sure. One of the two is noticeable because they accidentally put 1.12 new divine spells into 1.11 that are obviously incomplete (missing descriptions, icons, etc) and can be chosen by arcane casters. I’m a little disappointed that the QA process at Atari is so laughable that they didn’t catch this before it was pushed out. It isn’t a big deal but it’s just sloppy.
I called their mods short, with low production values and with the exception of a very few, with uninspired stories. Oh I also mentioned that the one which attempted voice acting was horrendously bad at it (the module itself was one of the better ones).
Feel free to continue to get bent out of shape over it.
Jeez why don’t you bring up an excuse as old as the 'net. Being free provides no immunity from criticism. To expect the opposite in 2007 is a little naive.
I’m sorry to be blunt, but your feelings and the feelings of the modders are not my concern. It’s their choice to put up their work for the public to experience. Something a creator in any media faces. If they don’t have thick skin, too bad. I’ve experienced my own share of ridiculous and deserved criticism (by having my recorded games in an RTS criticized by hundreds of people, not the same thing but the same principle). All one can do is shrug it off and keep going.
Oh thank you so much for sparing me. I just don’t know what I would do if someone would really give it to me. I’ve never experienced flaming on the 'net before. Does it really hurt that much? I fear I won’t live through it and may just have to cut my wrists or something …
Seriously now, if you can’t see the difference between my expressed opinion and “shitting on the modding community”, then I’m not the one in need of bifocals.
And again, grow thicker skin. Some of the comments to the hall of fame mods on NWNvault make my post seem like soothing kisses in comparison.
I’m the one being defensive? Now there’s a laugh …
As for constructive criticism, you mean like what I gave already?
The mods are short and require you to use low level characters over and over again.
Most have cliched and uninteresting stories (also see short again) and uninspired dialogue.
Don’t try voice acting. See “Dark Waters” for how bad it can be when done by the fanbase.
Oh sorry, I think I was supposed to preface this with:
“Dear modders, I love love love your FREE work that you have graciously deigned to allow for me to experience.”
Would that make it all better? rolls eyes
Knock it off, guys.
Criticism is one thing, but being a dick is another.
It’s not the modder’s fault that you’re an insufferable asshole. :)
Kunikos you know you want in. It isn’t a discussion about mods unless someone gets called an asshole and everyone goes home crying.
Actually, the part that pissed me off was this one:
I’m not gonna bother line quoting you just to say fuck you veddy much for that throw away line.
Criticism is constructive commentary. Being a douche is when you dismiss work that you couldn’t yourself come anywhere near to replicating with the textual equivalent of a hand wave. Being a freeloading asshat is when you hand wave and then play the mods anyway, then giggle and pat yourself on the back for being too high brow for this tripe put out by people with more talent in their little fingers than you’ve got leaking through your shit stuffed body.
And now, without further ado, I’m going to go hump a fridge.
You mean the part where I say they aren’t worth playing? Yeah I already got that, thanks.
I have no hope of replicating “Rush Hour 2” either, but that doesn’t mean I can’t tell somebody to not bother watching it …
… after having seen it myself on TV. For free.
So like I said, being free doesn’t give these mods immunity from criticism.
We done now? Or would you like to make some more ineffectual attempts at hurting my feelings?
Except that you are no critic, just an asshat throwing up strawmen. Again, the builders desperately want criticism, but despite your free-flowing expression you still can’t give them any. That makes you seem like an insufferable shit.
We done now? Or would you like to make some more ineffectual attempts at hurting my feelings?
I dunno, all Aeon has to curl up with now is Qt3, poor guy. Personally, I hope the thrashing continues, but it is clogging up the thread.
The qualification for critic is “everyone who played”.
The only strawman here is your repeated claim that I provided no criticism. No, wait, first it was whining instead of criticism. Then it became the wrong kind of criticism. Now it’s a total lack of criticism, apparently.
It really shouldn’t be my problem that you’re either blind or can’t read, but what the hell, here are my criticisms for the fourth time:
Modules are very short.
You’re stuck playing low level characters over and over.
Story/dialogue are of poor quality.
The rare voice-over work is horrendous.
Hmm, maybe I should make them bold, even underline 'em too, so perhaps this time you’ll notice them. Nah, probably won’t help anyway …
For it to be a thrashing somebody needs to actually be getting hurt.
Wonder if I could get the game to run now? I’m almost done being pissed off at NWN2.
NWN2 brings on the flame wars.
I’m going insane from the non-stop studying. I even hid my phone from myself. It really sucks!
But yeah, fun as its been its time to stop now. Trolls over folks!