Obama on foreign policy

Dave Markell criticizing the social ramifications of the free market?

<sound of monocle popping out of my eye>

Hey, we also get Glenn Greenwald.

Honestly well said jeffd. Indeed.

Well…I’d have to say it comes from on the ground, no-shit experience my friend. Its not like we are out killing for happy-happy times…but I have seen JDAMs impact civs several times…

When you drop steel on targets in or near villages…you try to make sure that people aren’t around. Targeteers and FO’s try their damndest for that. THat being said, it does happen, and it seriously does fuck up relations. This is why Karzai is losing his mind over it…and why the Taleban and AQ already DO use it as propoganda.

I think that invading Iraq was a million times worse geo-politically than anything Obama could say.

If you want to see really damaging remarks from a politician though, look no further than one of the Pub candidates (and sadly my Congressmen):

“Well, what if you said something like — if this happens in the United States, and we determine that it is the result of extremist, fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites,” Tancredo answered. “You’re talking about bombing Mecca,” Campbell said.
“Yeah,” Tancredo responded.
The congressman later said he was “just throwing out some ideas” and that an “ultimate threat” might have to be met with an “ultimate response.”

I’m not a utopian of any kind, bigdruid, something I hoped you would realize by now. I understand that every conceivable political and social system has inherent weaknesses. “Giving the people what they want” is the chief flaw of democracy and capitalism–what if the people want things that undermine the system that enables them? Blindness to such problems is the very definition of the hard-line ideologue.

In the video he mentions the lack of planning and what might lead to a factional fight between the Kurds/Shiites/Sunnis, etc.

Does Bush to this day even know the fucking difference between the factions and tribes?

Quick question: How many different Iraqi parties can you name without resorting to wikipedia?

For bonus points, give a quick run down on their primary issues and beliefs.

My point is that you’re just being an idiot on that one. Expecting someone to have a good grasp on the local politics of several nations is just a bit much. Is Bush incompetent? Yeah, definitely. Is he incompetent because he can’t remember errata on the hundred and sixty some nations on the globe? No. Even a focus on Iraq is a bit much when the gent is also supposed to be dealing with allegations against the Chinese wrt trade, immigration reform (shot down by congress), setting up multiple free trade agreements (shot down by congress), dealing with politics back home, managing relations with all the major first world nations (not to mention all the regional powers), and managing two foriegn wars. Among other things.

And don’t forget that he also has to win the Global War on Pretzel Choking (GWOPC) and jog every day. Be thankful for the little things, like the man being able to dress himself with only minimal assistance.

In general, no. In this specific case, it might be a good idea for Bush to learn the politics of countries he’s invading.

Or know someone who has.

Actually FUCKnut…I served in intel in the USMC for ten years. When I landed in country in Iraq, operating first in Al Anbar with Task Force Highlander and then with the MEU in the south…I DID NEED TO FUCKING KNOW ALL OF THAT.

During my time with CentCom (Florida 2002 to 2004, then Qatar)…the moronic, imbecile Republicans who did show up for tours did not actually know anything so basic as Sunni/Shiite. Why? Because we briefed them on it and they did not know shit.

When you go to war with someone, and you are COMMANDER IN CHIEF, yes, I do expect you to know the local geopolitics of the country you are invading.

Can I name every Shiite sect operating throughout Basra and An Najaf? No. But I could tell you the basics of those tribes, their motivations, their history.

Bush can’t. Neither can you.

In addition, I would say in argument to your Wikipedia comment…

It is better to have knowledge of where to access something when needed rather that submitting to the idea that you do not need to know.

ADDITIONALLY STILL…you say that it is wrong to expect a President to know the factions, and yet a mere Senator is talking about said factions before the war (in the video you quoted me using).

What the hell exactly are you arguing? It looks pretty stupid when a dude in 2002 is defeating your argument and he is not even the President.

Dude… I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Yes, I thought of that. I need to lay off the old Politics section!! I get super-heated and miss the humor…which is bad. It lets the terrorists win :).

Edit: And if sarcasm was on the menu, then Aeon has my apologies.

Yeah, I don’t blame a president if he can’t spontaneously tell you the tribe and politics of Zaligandizar, but if you’re planning for months to invade a country and remove it’s government, you better understand in great depth the politics, sects, etc. of that nation and what is likely to happen afterwards. Bush’s daddy understood it well enough to not take out Saddam when it would have been simple, and he took heat for not “finishing the job,” but he understood there was no good answer to “what next?”

Bah, you’re just pumping up your post count. Unlike this message which has a useful contribution to the discussion (of your post count)