I think a lot of the GOP is starting to get sick of Trump, and they’re starting to see him as the loser he is. He’s just an anchor tied around their necks at this point.
The republicans didn’t do any of these things for the past 8 years and look where they are at now. They control every branch. I say we stay with the winning strategy & stonewall them at every turn.
Exactly. Look at where they are now.
Is that where you want to be? Really?
I’m sure they are more than satisfied with the outcome. If they weren’t saddled with an idiot for a president, they’d be swimming in legislation to fuck everyone over. What’s not to like? The Dem’s got a slim taste of this power when Obama first got elected, but then they squandered the opportunity. I’m sure after the past 8 years, they’d like another chance to get a lot more firm and set things right that will cement their standing.
Look, I’m yanking your chain just a bit. I just don’t see where compromise has been helpful to Dems in the past, what 16 years, and I think it’s high time the Republicans got a taste of their own medicine for once.
Plus, you know, Democratic goals aren’t out-and-out evil, so, y’know, absolute control by them would be sort of hilariously ineffectual at worst!
Again.
But you says to look at where they are. So let’s look at where they actually are.
They have control of everything, but are completely incapable of actually doing anything. And not just because Trump is an idiot, but because their prior tactics required them to base everything on crazy ideology rather than rationality. There is no actual way they can do anything now.
Agreed. I imagine they will be thrilled, actually, because they won’t have to accept direct responsibility for it.
Yes, this about sums it up. I do think they will cut taxes if they can work together on it, and they may finance the cuts by massive borrowing rather than massive spending cuts.
I think a big factor is that impeachment requires “high crimes and misdemeanors” and despite enough smoke to hide the D-Day invasion fleet, it is not clear what actual crimes Trump has done. (Other than against civility, decency, the English language etc.)
I suspect 1/2 the Republican are ready to impeach him now but need to have an actual crime that they can explain to their constituency beyond the vague “obstruction of justice”. I have to believe the Mueller team is following the money, and there is some an actual bribe or money laundering somewhere in the Trump syndicate.
You mean other than like 3-4 cases of obstruction of justice alone?
They have way more than enough, they are actively pretending they don’t.
Clinton was impeached for far less. Hell, he passed Nixon a while ago.
Setting aside the obstruction stuff, I’m still genuinely curious at the emoluments stuff. I mean, is Trump or isn’t he raking in money on the back of his political success? Given that he never fully divested himself it seems like there would be a wealth of impeachable stuff going on there, but at least at the Federal Government level it doesn’t seem to have caught any traction. Is there no ‘there’ there, or is everyone just too damn busy to spend time looking at it?
If the GOP allows Trump to be impeached, the result is a vengeful, narcissist billionaire with the unquestioning allegiance of perhaps half of their base. He would create Trump TV, and the party would be more or less destroyed.
The ones from deep-red areas have no choice but to ride this out and pray we all survive it. (In theory, they could also place the good of the country above their personal interest in re-election. But… LOL).
Not true.
The impeachment process of Bill Clinton was initiated by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, against Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice.
On July 27, 29, and 30, 1974, the Committee approved three articles of impeachment against Nixon, for obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress, and reported those articles to the House of Representatives.
The underlying crime that Clinton committed was perjury in his testimony with Paula Jones.
In the case of Nixon the underlying crime was contempt of Congress. “We order you to turn over tapes and documents and you destroyed them.”
Obstruction of justice is a nebulous charge and the fact that we have had two months of talking head lawyers disagreeing about if it is actually obstruction isn’t helping matters.
There is a common misconception that “high crime” means “serious crime”. But that’s not true. A “high crime” is something that is forbidden for a high official, but might well be permissible for everyone else.
As to what constitutes a “high crime”… that’s up to Congress. Sort of like “conduct unbecoming an officer”. Which, incidentally, is also why impeachment does not necessarily lead a criminal trial.
Just to take one modern example, Halsted Ritter, a federal judge, was impeached and removed from office by the Senate in 1936. His “high crime” was “bringing the judiciary into disrepute”.
Are we due for our monthly reminder that “grounds for impeachment” is “whatever the House decides it is”?
Because the Constitution is intentionally vague on the point, because sadly Hamilton was wrong, wrong, wrong :(
QFT. They absolutely have more than enough. The circumstances around the Comey firing alone would be more than enough for a congress that was looking for an excuse to do so. But they aren’t.
I agree. High Crime is whatever Congress says it is. It is also a highly political event.
In the case of Republican Congressman, they need to have something black and white to explain to their constituents on why they sided with the evil Democrats.
I have a story from Nixon’s impeachment. Two days before Richard Nixon resigned, I was sitting in the Office of Congressman Carlos Moorhead (R-Glendale, CA). I wanted appointments to the Naval and Air Force Academy. Carlos was your classic old school Congressman. He did what the party wanted, and brought home some bacon. He was also on the House Judiciary Committee and one of Nixon’s last defenders (he voted against all the articles of impeachment). In his office he explained to my parents why he could no longer support Nixon. He particularly emphasized the destruction of evidence because he said it was so clear cut compared to abuse of power or obstruction of justice. Nixon shredded papers and destroyed the tapes, nobody can do that not even the President, when they are subpoenaed.
Well, before the insanity took hold of the GOP the reason would’ve been something they were quite fond of - “patriotism”. The real kind. But then, those constituents had sufficient evidence of his unfitness available to them before the election, so…
That makes sense. He was a supporter. He hung on until given no choice. If, on the other hand, he’d been looking for an excuse (like republicans with Clinton) it wouldn’t have taken as much. It’s a fluid thing. As I’ve said before, the GOP has excused so much, despite an ability to pass any legislation, I’m not sure I want to see come to pass whatever it is that would be a breaking point.
You’re judging them on 6 months? They have so much time left. I’m sure they’re plotting what they will accomplish in the next 3.5 years, or the remaining 7/8 of the time they have left (I don’t think midterms will move the needle much, but you never know)