Not to mention the fact that one of the popular pro-Brexit proposals wasâand we all know Don-Don was very much in favor of Brexitâthat the NHS would get more funding.
CVS @ Target paid ME $5 to get the flu shot.
Same. Publix gave me $20!
My mom did wind up getting her shot at a local clinic for a sliding fee scale of 15 dollars. Costco was still out of stock when she tried them again.
Get your government hands off my NHS!
US citizens would be very unhappy with the UK health system here and be political death for the party that tried to implement it. The US would never accept an institution like NICE.
The people of the UK will never give up their universal government run healthcare. I mean, why would they? It is literally a right to life.
I agree to at least some degree: I donât think a fully nationalized health care system like the UK NHS would work very well in the US. In theory, such a system could work after a lengthy transition but the disruption to the current system would be pretty severe. The good news is, no one of any significance in the Democratic party is proposing that, although Trump seems blissfully unaware of that fact.
There are enormous multi-level differences between a strong multipayor system like France or Germany versus a weak multi-payer system like the ACA versus provincial single payer as in Canada versus a fully nationalized system like the British NHS. The current positions for most national Democratic range from preserving the ACA (many red-state Dems), through strengthening the ACA (many blue-state Dems) up to single-payer systems similar to Canadaâs (Bernie and Bernie-adjacent). To the best of my knowledge, no one at a major level in the Democratic party is proposing nationalizing all the hospitals and medical practices.
Which means that Trumpâs critique was off-base. On top of that, it appears from the tweet that Trump himself has no idea that there is a difference between nationalized health care and single payer. Thatâs forgivable for a poor schlub getting through the day, but itâs a disgrace for the President to be that ignorant.
But hey thatâs America under Trump. A new disgrace by the President every day!
Welcome back, @wahoo! Iâve (very non-sarcastic, here) missed your contributions lately.
To your point, can you elaborate on why you feel that is the case?
Thanks! New state, new job and forgot to migrate my account over several years back. Thanks to strusser for helping me out.
The US canât have a UK system, because I donât think a health care system that can deny services will work for Americans. There is no appetite to deny services or new medicines in this country and systems that rely on a strong price control system have to deny care/medicines. The ACA has/had weak price control measures and many of those have disappeared with robust bipartisan support. I see an attempt to impose such a system on our political culture to be a disaster as politicians would be under immense pressure to overrule a the technical boards that would determine service coverage. US has a unique political culture that creates some fixed path and saying we could impose another countryâs system and have it work seems naive and too optimistic.
Iâd like to see the US migrate to a more Swiss style system (in terms of some coverage/competition/private-public partnership) and moving away from our hybrid majority government but also biz health care system, which is not sustainable.
I think American heath care is going to continue to be a tough topic b/c the ACA is here, and the individual market will continue to fail/limp along where middle class families/individuals wonât purchase plans in that market. The right has no solutions and a large swathe of the left is following suit with their push for single-payer, without thinking through the 2 hard questions of paying for it and what is the mechanism for determining what is not covered.
Sharpe: I donât know many Dems who argue just for preserving the ACA, they all recognize fixes are needed. The trouble is many of the fixes the ACA creators want have little chance of passing: a much larger individual mandate being their biggest ask and bigger individual market subsidies.
Are you under the impression that American health insurance companies provide all services without denials? Because that is very much not the case. In addition to outright denials, US health insurance companies use a wide range of modalities to âcontrol costs and improve patient outcomesâ which in practice can mean denials and delays.
Not every medical treatment is covered by US insurance. Experimental treatment is routinely denied. Prior to the ACA and âmental health parityâ laws, many health plans did not cover psychiatric treatment.
Also, pre-authorization is frequently required and is not always granted, especially for expensive items like surgery and brand name prescriptions.
On top of all that, there is the Big Denial in US health care: if you canât afford it, you are screwed. Prior to the ACAâs ban on exclusions for pre-existing conditions, people with the most severe need for care couldnât even buy insurance.
The reality is Americans have been living with multiple layers of denied and delayed care for decades.
True, but thereâs a huge political gulf between âcanât afford itâ and âgovernment denied me.â Same result medically, but very different in wrangling votes.
Insurance companies donât just deny things because theyâre expensive either, politicians do. Remember that whole Cadillac spiel the Republicans kept pushing? Well itâs not a luxury if you need it to live. The problem is authorization can be dependent on a number of things, but that doesnât mean theyâre going too auto-deny CAR-T therapy just because it can cost over a million dollars to do.
You are completely correct. Voters would definitely see it that way. And yet that view is deeply flawed. I mean, as a practical matter, a person is just as screwed by being denied treatment due to lack of being able to pay for it as if the government or an insurance company denied it. And yet, itâs a political reality that voters see it differently.
You could say this is another example of our deeply flawed electorate. However, I do know some lefties who would say the electorate has been deceived by decades of conservatives unfairly demonizing universal health care.
Thatâs a deeper issue. Like Gordon, I feel like our electorate is pretty screwed up. On the other hand, how did that happen?
Are there any numbers on the number of people who are denied treatment/canât afford it in a private system like the US versus number of people who are denied treatment in socialized health care systems in the EU?
From here, being denied a treatment does not seem like something that happens for anything the public system covers. For the stuff it doesnât cover (optional vaccines and stuff) people can still try to go to the private system (if they can afford it).
I donât think thereâs a system in the EU where people canât outright pay for treatment if they are unhappy with the nationalized Healthcare. Private health care is not forbidden and is indeed thriving, although it does need to be competitive against the public systems. The private health care system in the UK, for example, is extensive.
Itâs probably basically impossible to quantify those numbers⌠mostly because itâs not usually the patient that requesting something, itâs the doctor. And the doctor (or else their billing specialist) generally knows up front what the insurance will pay for and wonât bother asking for something that they know will be turned down.
This is increasingly true with physician practices being bought up by hospital systems. Nowadays, the system will have the whole thing figured out â what the insurance will pay, deductible and copay/coinsurance â before you even get treatment and will ask for payment of your portion in advance.
The NHS does not deny anyone needed health care. Not sure where you heard that? There can be delays and waiting lists just like anywhere but nobody denies service.
I lived under the NHS for twenty years. It is head and shoulders above the US health care system, I mean, its not even close. The NHS is cheaper & better than regular healthcare in the United States by a massive distance.
The only thing holding the United States back in the dark ages is some bizarre âgovernment is less efficientâ childrenâs story that some folks believe over here.
Iâd like to introduce you to Medicare, the VA, and Medicaid⌠nothing fantasy about them. Theyâre real life inefficient government run programs.